Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
By J. Lee Grady
Todd Bentley’s announcement that his marriage is ending has thrown our movement into a tailspin—and questions need to be answered.
It was not supposed to end like this.
Evangelist Todd Bentley had heralded the Lakeland revival as the greatest Pentecostal outpouring since Azusa Street. From his stage in a gigantic tent in Florida, Bentley preached to thousands, bringing many of them to the stage for prayer. Many claimed to be healed of deafness, blindness, heart problems, depression and dozens of other conditions in the Lakeland services, which ran for more than 100 consecutive nights. Bentley announced confidently that dozens of people had been raised from the dead during the revival.
But this week, a few days after the Canadian preacher announced the end of his visits to Lakeland, he told his staff that his marriage is ending. Without blaming the pace of the revival for Bentley’s personal problems, his board released a public statement saying that he and his wife, Shonnah, are separating. The news shocked Bentley’s adoring fans and saddened those who have questioned his credibility since the Lakeland movement erupted in early April.
I’m sad. I’m disappointed. And I’m angry. Here are few of my many, many questions about this fiasco:
Why did so many people flock to Lakeland from around the world to rally behind an evangelist who had serious credibility issues from the beginning?
To put it bluntly, we’re just plain gullible.
From the first week of the Lakeland revival, many discerning Christians raised questions about Bentley’s beliefs and practices. They felt uneasy when he said he talked to an angel in his hotel room. They sensed something amiss when he wore a T-shirt with a skeleton on it. They wondered why a man of God would cover himself with tattoos. They were horrified when they heard him describe how he tackled a man and knocked his tooth out during prayer.
But among those who jumped on the Lakeland bandwagon, discernment was discouraged. They were expected to swallow and follow. The message was clear: “This is God. Don’t question.” So before we could all say, “Sheeka Boomba” (as Bentley often prayed from his pulpit), many people went home, prayed for people and shoved them to the floor with reckless abandon, Bentley-style.
I blame this lack of discernment, partly, on raw zeal for God. We’re spiritual hungry—which can be a good thing. But sometimes, hungry people will eat anything.
Many of us would rather watch a noisy demonstration of miracles, signs and wonders than have a quiet Bible study. Yet we are faced today with the sad reality that our untempered zeal is a sign of immaturity. Our adolescent craving for the wild and crazy makes us do stupid things. It’s way past time for us to grow up.
Why didn’t anyone in Lakeland denounce the favorable comments Bentley made about William Branham?
This one baffles me. Branham embraced horrible deception near the end of his ministry, before he died in 1965. He claimed that he was the reincarnation of Elijah—and his strange doctrines are still embraced by a cultlike following today. When Bentley announced to the world that the same angel that ushered in the 1950s healing revival had come to Lakeland, the entire audience should have run for the exits.
Why didn’t anyone correct this error from the pulpit? Godly leaders are supposed to protect the sheep from heresy, not spoon feed deception to them. Only God knows how far this poison traveled from Lakeland to take root elsewhere. May God forgive us for allowing His Word to be so flippantly contaminated.
A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up.
Why did God TV tell people that “any criticism of Todd Bentley is demonic”?
This ridiculous statement was actually made on one of God TV’s pre-shows. In fact, the network’s hosts also warned listeners that if they listened to criticism of Bentley, they could lose their healings.
This is cultic manipulation at its worst. The Bible tells us that the Bereans were noble believers because they studied the Scriptures daily “to see whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11, NASB). Yet in the case of Lakeland, honest intellectual inquiry was viewed as a sign of weakness. People were expected to jump first and then open their eyes.
Just because we believe in the power of the Holy Spirit does not mean we check our brains at the church door. We are commanded to test the spirits. Jesus wants us to love Him with our hearts and our minds.
Because of the Lakeland scandal, there may be large numbers of people who feel they’ve been burned by Bentley. Some may give up on church and join the growing ranks of bitter, disenfranchised Christians. Others may suffer total spiritual shipwreck. This could have been avoided if leaders had been more vocal about their objections and urged people to evaluate spiritual experiences through the filter of God’s Word.
Why did a group of respected ministers lay hands on Bentley on June 23 and publicly ordain him? Did they know of his personal problems?
This controversial ceremony was organized by Peter Wagner, who felt that one of Bentley’s greatest needs was proper spiritual covering. He asked California pastors Che Ahn and Bill Johnson, along with Canadian pastor John Arnott, to lay hands on Bentley and bring him under their care.
Bentley certainly needs such covering. No one in ministry today should be out on their own, living in isolation without checks, balances and wise counsel. It was commendable that Wagner reached out to Bentley and that Bentley acknowledged his need for spiritual fathers by agreeing to submit to the process. The question remains, however, whether it was wise to commend Bentley during a televised commissioning service that at times seemed more like a king’s coronation.
In hindsight, we can all see that it would have been better to take Bentley into a back room and talk about his personal issues.
The Bible tells us that ordination of a minister is a sober responsibility. Paul wrote: “Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others” (1 Tim. 5:22). We might be tempted to rush the process, but the apostle warned against fast-tracking ordination—and he said that those who commission a minister who is not ready for the job will bear some of the blame for his failures.
I trust that Wagner, Ahn, Johnson and Arnott didn’t know of Bentley’s problems before they ordained him. I am sure they are saddened by the events of this week and are reaching out to Bentley and his wife to promote healing and restoration. But I believe that they, along with Bentley and the owners of God TV, owe the body of Christ a forthright, public apology for thrusting Bentley’s ministry into the spotlight prematurely. (Perhaps such an apology should be aired on God TV.)
Can anything good come out of this?
That depends on how people respond. If the men assigned to oversee Bentley offer loving but firm correction, and if Bentley responds humbly to the process by stepping out of ministry for a season of rehabilitation, we could witness a healthy case of church discipline play out the way it is supposed to. If all those who were so eager to promote Bentley now rush just as fast to repent for their errors in judgment, then the rest of us could breathe a huge sigh of relief—and the credibility of our movement could be restored.
I still believe that God desires to visit our nation in supernatural power. I know He wants to heal multitudes, and I will continue praying for a healing revival to sweep across the United States. But we must contend for the genuine, not an imitation. True revival will be accompanied by brokenness, humility, reverence and repentance—not the arrogance, showmanship and empty hype that often was on display in Lakeland.
We are weathering an unprecedented season of moral failure and spiritual compromise in our nation today. I urge everyone in the charismatic world to pray for Bentley; his wife, Shonnah; his three young children; Bentley’s ministry staff; and the men and women who serve as his counselors and advisers. Let’s pray that God will turn this embarrassing debacle into an opportunity for miraculous restoration.
J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma. To read Charisma’s news story on Todd Bentley’s recent announcement, http://www.charismamag.com/cms/news/arc ... 81208a.php.
COMMENTS
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:31 am
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 594
A hearty amen!!! Glad you are telling it like it is!
I remember Dutch Sheets saying that there will be a huge mess to clean up when all this(Lakeland) is over. And he was right.
derekjager
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:35 am
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 2
I'm not at all surprised and as I e-mailed CHARISMA months ago, they -- CHARISMA -- had a responsibility to INVESTIGATE this
mess.
They NEVER did.
They simply reported what was seen and heard by others. You would think they would have seen some of their reporters to the site, got some mature Christian leaders to voice their concerns, had a round table discussion, but they did NOTHING.
And now Lee is "angry" again---for the past year, every time he writes he's "angry" about something.
He and CHARISMA should repent for missing out on declaring the truth.
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:40 am
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 594
[quote="derekjager"]I'm not at all surprised and as I e-mailed CHARISMA months ago, they -- CHARISMA -- had a responsibility to INVESTIGATE this mess.
They NEVER did.
They simply reported what was seen and heard by others. You would think they would have seen some of their reporters to the site, got some mature Christian leaders to voice their concerns, had a round table discussion, but they did NOTHING.
And now Lee is "angry" again---for the past year, every time he writes he's "angry" about something.
He and CHARISMA should repent for missing out on declaring the truth.[/quote]
They have been investigating...Grady and other well respected men of God have been researching the healing claims. One of those respected men, Richard Ricciardelli, even posted on the "General Discussion" forum about his findings.
jalnor
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:50 am
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:46 pm
Posts: 132
We with discernment have no voice. Charisma Magazine is compromised and won't give us a voice in their pages. Christianity Today is apostate and couldn't care less about the defense of the true faith. So, now Editor Lee is wringing his hands, wondering why the right questions weren't asked. Come now! You really should start reading your own forum to see that we were shouting from the housetops and sending links to discernment ministries - and you all shut your eyes.
Now you're all crying over this.
So is Emma:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0hYTOdt4_o
LionHeart
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:58 am
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:43 pm
Posts: 11
Lee, You want God to give a revival like ones you read about in books. It will happen the way God wants with whom God wants. As for William Branham and Bentley, Ern Baxter a very conservative Evangelical travelled with Branham and kept him straight. When he could no longer silence Branham’s teaching of his esoteric ideas he left. Branham then went bad.
Last edited by LionHeart on Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TimeToRepent
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:00 pm
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:40 pm
Posts: 747
Lee....I agree with most that you have to say..good for you.... I just think you keep pulling up short. You did in the begininng and now you've done it again.
The so called prophets who ran down to Lakeland to commend and exhalt Bentley were dead wrong. I absolutely cringed when I watched it online. Even if they did not know about his "personal problems" they should have SOME DISCERNMENT and recognized the false doctrine and GROSS ERROR!! Obviously they have NONE....0....zilch.... and I hope they are on their faces repenting and crying out to God today as THEY ENCOURAGED THIS WHOLE MESS AND THE MULTITUDES WHO FOLLOWED IT BY THEIR LEADING......GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEM AND ANYONE ELSE WHO PROMOTED IT!
Last edited by TimeToRepent on Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jalnor
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:05 pm
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:46 pm
Posts: 132
[quote="LionHeart"] As for William Branham and Bentley, Ern Baxter a very conservative Evangelic travelled with Barnham and kept him straight. When he could no longer silence Branham’s teaching of his own esoteric ideas he left. Branham then went bad. [/quote]
And then Ern Baxter went bad -- He was part of the Ft. Lauderdale-5 that gave us the Shepherding Movement and their abuses of authority. I just hope he saw the error of his way.
anthony
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:07 pm
1,000 Posts Club
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:20 pm
Posts: 1743
Location: u.k
At the very least i think apologies from Godtv and the apostolic band are in order.
nate
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:10 pm
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Iowa
I like the article, I guess many of us could have said "I told you so".
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:25 pm
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:29 pm
Posts: 594
[quote="nate"]I like the article, I guess many of us could have said "I told you so".[/quote]
+1.
RWayne777
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:30 pm
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:24 am
Posts: 14
GOD IS NOT PLEASED
God is not pleased with those apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers who have and are leading His people astray. He is not pleased with those ministers who are ministering for gain, no matter how subtle or deceitful it is. He is not pleased that some are even brash and forthright with their gain off of the gospel. They announce it as theirs and everybody’s right. Their good works do not hide from God's eyes their misleading and misuse of His people; their occasional proper use of Scripture does not excuse their often misuse of Scripture. God is not pleased!
God is not pleased with those apostles who are planting structures of their own understanding and making. God is not pleased with those prophets who prophesy words, dreams, and visions of their own imagination, their own understanding, their own making. God is not pleased with those evangelists who spread manmade doctrines throughout the Church and excite people with false revivals. God is not pleased with those pastors who, week after week, feed His people with man’s ideas and interpretations of Scripture rather than sanctifying them with truth. God is not pleased with teachers, especially those trained in Greek and Hebrew, who teach point by point man’s understanding of Scripture rather than God’s wisdom and revelation of Scripture.
All of these ministers are accountable and will receive their due for how thy have stood in the way of God’s people and hindered them from growing in Christ and being one mature body. They are being called to account, and an account they will give.
You political leaders who have been led astray by these ministers, you will also give an account. You will give an account for listening to man’s counsel that promoted your cause rather than God’s truth that advanced His kingdom and helped His people. God is not pleased with you people who have set under these ministers and blindly followed them because of your selfishness, inner greed and lusts. You people who have been deceived by these ministers, God is calling you to wake up and follow them no longer. If you refuse to heed the call to wake up, then you will reap accordingly.
God is calling all to repentance! Rend your hearts and turn your faces toward God! Do not try to appease Him with temporary or external changes. Change your mind and your heart and follow Jesus Christ.
http://WWW.JesusandHisWord.org
http://WWW.JesusandtheWord.blogspot.com
Last edited by RWayne777 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gospeltoyou
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:31 pm
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:21 am
Posts: 98
Location: Tulsarusalem
+2
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:40 pm
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:01 pm
Posts: 38
Lee, you can't see it or hear it from there but I want you to know you're getting a standing ovation from over here today.
Your article covers it all pretty well. And you seem to be owning, despite some comments here, that even the folks at Charisma got fooled because they desire to see a revival break out so badly. In fact I think you own up to a lot here and you call other leaders to own up to their parts as well. My hope is that you and Charisma will not let this go quietly away and pump Bill Johnson's next book or John Arnott's next 'anointed' cruise until a true apology is given. Particularly from Johnson who used his close connection to Todd's family become reason for supporting Todd's ministry.
When I was in english composition my prof taught a section on grammar. Then we read Faulkner who broke every rule in the grammar section. "When you get big enough," she explained to us, "you don't have to follow the rules any more." There are leaders involved who clearly believe they've become bigger than they are. They have left discernment behind in pursuit of grander things. We must hold each other accountable for this and not let this continue.
For those who don't think Lee has gone far enough - I think he's been gracious and given people who need to speak up for themselves an opportunity to come clean, be honest and apologize or repent as needed. I hope they choose to do this on their own and can be as honest as Lee about being gullable.
motelrob
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:42 pm
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 0
When a movement or individual is putting God first, these types of individuals will have a hard time getting attention. It seems we're always looking for a show. Friends, I've got news for you, the big show is coming and we're not ready, and won't be until it gets through to us that all that matters is Jesus and his Word. Get back to the basics and leave all this nonsense behind for good.
darlene
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:44 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 0
I agree with Lee's article but we cannot discount that God did show up. God is full of Grace, like Jonah said, I know God is full of compassion and He is but what is hidden in the dark will be exposed in the light.
I don't know when God's people are going to take their eyes off of men and put it on God.
The Whites (church without walls) hurt so many people...christian superstars and its not of God.
Usually there is more than people are willing to tell... it takes more than stress from revival to break up a marriage.
Its all too sad...Ted Haggard's mess no wonder people don't get saved...the body of Christ refuses to grow up
and realize its not about them but about God's purpose...God forgive us....Darlene McIntyre Columubus, Indiana
7zarc7
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:47 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 0
Hey, who finally turned on the lights for Charisma and all of the "Leaders" who jumped on the "Revival" bandwagon? I was astounded by the number of professing believers who swallowed the garbage coming out of Lakeland for so long. It surprises me that many will now be shocked when they realize that this was not revival. That they were duped. While anyone who questioned the doctrines of Mr. Bently were written off as being critical or jealous, you are now vindicated. However, do not gloat. This is a sad testimony of how blind people in church are. I didn't say The Body of Christ, I said the church. I believe that those who know the voice of the Good Shepherd knew all along it was not His voice coming out of Lakeland. There are many in churches today who don't know Jesus and it is sad. Our hearts should break and the Body needs to repent for not standing for truth.
Jukka
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:48 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 0
J. Lee, please be careful not to place judgement to everything that took place in Lakeland. I don't think you do, but you sound a bit like that. When one is angry, he/she easily uses too many words. With this I don't mean to say that everything was alright in Lakeland. Actually you might even be true in almost everything you write in your latest column.
Btw, I wonder how many people really prayed for the outpouring to stay in/take a right direction... Well, now is the time to pray for Todd and his family as well as increasing desire for God, a desire that yearns nothing but God and what he really presents. Let's be childlike but not blue-eyed! God will manifest Himself when we wait on Him.
chet
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:49 pm
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 0
Lee:
You and your magazine supported this as genuine from the get-go, while thousands of us out there knew immediately that the extra-biblical manifestations of Todd Bentley went right along with the extra-biblical manifestations that you promoted as the so-called "Toronto Blessings" under John Arnot several years ago where masses of people were falling down to the floor and quivering around out of self-control calling this the Holy Spirit. Apparently few ever heard of the fruit of the Spirit called self-control. Since self control is a fruit of the Spirit then how could the Holy Spirit violate his own fruit and take over and control a person and force him or her to act in an extra-biblical behavior pattern totally out of control, especially in a violent way harming people? I've been a Christian and teacher of the word of God for about 35 years. Reading these false manifestations is as clear as reading the alphabet.
The issue here is that most charismatics and virtually all denominations have fabricated their own bible with their own belief system [Man's Bible rather than God's Bible] and simply do not believe the words of Jesus and the apostles. They fabricate their own doctrinal positions and preach them based on erroneous interpretations of the Bible. I have followed what you teach now for many years being a subscriber to Charisma since its inception. I happen to be one of those people who believe that the truth does not need to be interpreted. People make grave mistakes using experience to support scripture. Why not use scripture to support scripture? That way, doctrinal positions stand on their own in the absence of any teacher, and won't be susceptible to ridicule and attack by those who know the truth.
Paul wrote Galatians in response to a report that the Galatian churches were suddenly taken over by false teachings of certain Judaizers who professed Jesus as savior yet sought to place gentile converts under the requirements of the Mosaic Law. We have the same thing today where more than half of Christianity - perhaps 600 million believers - preaches a gospel which is a mixture of grace and law imposing the law of tithing [which has nothing to do with money, and thus it is a perversion of the word of God], and offerings [which has everything to do with money and paying for sin which Jesus paid for in full], keeping the Sabbath day, etc on believers which leads people into following the law of sin and death (Rom 7) which we are supposed to be delivered from (Rom 8:2). Satan is behind this and it is as plain as day to believers who are skilled in the word of God. Following the Law invites constant spiritual warfare as Paul teaches in Rom 7.
Paul said a little leaven leavens the WHOLE LUMP (Gal 5:9). So if we drift away from the truth a little bit by getting into interpretation of the truth, it will destroy our walk with Jesus. We need to carefully read and study Galatians. Paul said that if anyone preaches any other gospel than what he delivered, let him be accursed. He said it twice in the same breath in Gal 1. So this is simple. Look up what we are preaching and see if it is in any of Paul's teachings - tithing, offerings, keeping the Mosaic Law, women teaching the word of God, women sitting in authority over a man, etc.[some of these you have taught over the years]. If these doctrines are not found in Paul's teachings, then these are dangerous positions to be involved in. It's called rebellion which is as the sin of witchcraft. It's vexing the Holy Spirit (Isa 63:1). It's illegitimate power used to establish illegitimate authority.
Frankly, it is time to repent. It is of the utmost importance that people who consider themselves leaders, or who are publishing widely circulating periodicals to millions of Christians not lead people astray supporting and publishing "doctrinal" positions which are not found in the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. This is especially harmful and perhaps devastating to believers who are not grounded in the word of God. Your magazine's support of the so-called "Toronto Blessing" and the "Todd Bentley Revival" are examples of the support of extra-biblical behavior patterns in opposition to scripture. The ordination of Todd Bentley by these so-called apostles and prophets [Peter Wagner et al] was an astonishingly negative event. Now these people have NO credibility in spiritual matters. Who is going to listen to them now? Was this a grave error, or a move of the Spirit exposing the truth about these so-called prophets and apostles?
What we have here is the great falling away - the apostasy (2 Thes 2:3) - a falling away from the truth of the word of God in favor of fantasies and feel-good experiences. When a person is not living in the word of God and meditating on it on a daily basis thru prayer, it is very easy to drift away from the truth and the presence of the Holy Spirit. This explains why we have a massive number of people flocking to anything that even resembles a move of God. The presence of God is not real to them in their daily lives so they go looking for Him as if He dwells in buildings because they want a taste of the supernatural. Because of their ignorance of scripture, they easily get sucked into extra-biblical manifestations, call it the truth, and then proliferate it all over the place.
It is also apparent from scripture that not all believers are going in the "Rapture." It will be a serious mistake to be caught in sin and on the side of rebellion against the word of God preaching fantasies as the Day of the Lord approaches. Jesus warned the church in Sardis in Rev 3:2 saying: "...I have not found your works perfect before God." We have an obligation as hard as it may seem to perfect our works before God, especially our teaching, preaching and ministering to people.
created2worship
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:51 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:33 pm
Posts: 0
i will have to agree with mr grady about the issues surrounding todd bentley and the lakeland revival .. but the one thing that mr grady made reference to in his article about todd bentleys tattoos , i dont think should be an issue as i have seen some of the most Godly people in ministry with 1 or multiple tattoos .. dont look at the outside but always seek to see their heart as jesus did.. thanks and be blessed!
Jukka
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:55 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 0
thegadite, I think there is a lot of wisdom in what you said.
jalnor
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:07 pm
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:46 pm
Posts: 132
Chet - Amen to your 3:49 wisdom.
dklml2
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:11 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:05 pm
Posts: 0
I don't know why there ought to be confusion to sort out. It was clear that this supposed revival was not of God from the start. If you want to get an eye-opener to this, simply go back and replay the video from the June 23rd commissioning of Bentley by those that believe they are today's apostles and prophets. And don't forget the lengthy prophecy given by the lady who couldn't stop shaking her head. This entire service was said to be anointed of God, prophecied over by God, and commissioned by today's apostles. People are human and make mistakes, but what are we to say about a so-called mistake like this -- including prophecy over Bentley that could NOT have been of God. It's time that people faced the facts and returned to the person of Jesus Christ, and His Word, and stopped looking for signs and wonders.
Profile E-mail
Cracked
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:16 pm
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:01 pm
Posts: 38
[quote="thegadite"]J. Lee,
I generally respect your opinion and response to critical issues in the Body of Christ, but not entirely this time. I grieve over the failure of Todd Bentley's marriage, as should we all. But to throw out the baby with the bath water is wrong. Bentley may have done a lot of things wrong, made some stupid statement (indicative of his youth) and at times seemed arrogant, but I believe his heart was and is to glorify Jesus. Bentley's need for fathering may have become apparent back in June but the real need was there years ago when he first felt called to ministry. We as the church failed him back then in providing the discipleship and training that is desperately needed with every leader in the Body of Christ, especially those who are thrown into the lime light. I admired Bentley's passion for the Lord, his desire to see people healed and his willingness to be a fool for Christ. It's easy to sit back and criticize the man, especially now that things have gone bad. How quickly we forget the words of Jesus, "Let him without sin cast the first stone."
I personally am not a Todd Bentley fan. His style and methodology is not anything I would want to emulate. But I don't believe he is a charlatan out to fleece the Body of Christ. He's a young man with zeal and passion to serve Jesus in spite of all his short-comings. Instead of criticizing him, what would happen if we all got on our faces and cried out for God's mercy and grace.
We need also to be reminded of the words of the apostle Paul to the church in Ephesus. "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." The devil is rejoicing today, not so much in the fact that one man has stumble, but that many in the church are rejoicing with him in that man's demise. God help us![/quote]
This, I think, is a case Gadite, of Lee not going far enough. If you re-read his post you'll see, I think, that he's not talking exclusively about the troubles in Todd's marriage. The truth is that there is a whole bunch that Lee knows that he's not saying. Others will be saying it in the near future. Part two of Peter Wagner's letter might go on to name some of the other things people have come forward to speak the truth on about Todd Bentley and Lakeland.
No one is saying that God didn't heal anyone who worshipped Him at Lakeland or that no one ever met Jesus there. What will become clear is that there never was a baby to throw out with the bathwater. I know these are just words right now but if you stay tuned you will read stories and get information that will make it all clear. But then, we may never hear all the stories as some things really need to be dealt with behind the scenes. Ultimately that's where Wagner should have met up with Bentley, not on the stage. I hope we don't hear all the stories. Far too many have been hurt in this.
derekjager
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:25 pm
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:05 pm
Posts: 2
Not sure why so many think "we" (the Church) need to repent.
I never supported this silly "revival" and God is NOT "mad" at America nor is he getting ready to "judge it" -- He already poured out his wrath on Jesus.
This was a deceptive, angel of light slight-of-hand "show" that immature Christians flocked to. It won't even registered a footnote when the 2000s are looked back on.
And I stand by my original post--CHARISMA never investigated it. They put out a couple little "let's wait and see" instead of digging into this story like everyone else on the Internet was. Even the mainstream media rolled their eyes -- as Jesus did! -- at the whole circus.
When people get all excited and fly across the country/world to "see the show" I wonder why they don't have their own, PERSONAL relationship with the Lord?
HE is our healer, not the pastor down the block or across the country.
And I think Todd and his wife had marital problems BEFORE the revival--it only made them more real. It's a shame that the "fruit" of this whole mess may be his divorce and the Christians who "wake up" and realize much of this was a lot of emotion.
But the Church moves on...we never stopped!
ChadC
Post subject: Sickened by Charisma and Grady!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:28 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:04 pm
Posts: 0
My name is Chad Cline and I am the evangelism/prayer ministries pastor at Grove City Nazarene in Grove City Ohio. The reason I state this is because I refuse to hide behind the anonimity of the Internet to blast a brother in Christ. Grady, I am sickened by the way you act toward Todd Bentley. You remind me more of the pharisees than Jesus. As I read this article you wrtote I see Jesus in the Passion of the Christ as He is tied to the whipping post while the torturers laugh and mock while Christ suffers! In fact Jesus told His disciples not to speak against anyone that preached in His name as those who are not against Him are for Him. I must ask you if there is no flaws in your marriage? is there no places in your life that could use some help from Jesus? Then put down the stones you carry and act like the man of God you claim to be! What sickens me more is how you almost take great pride and gloat over the fact that a brother in Christ is dying inside from a failed marriage and all you can say is I told you so! That is absolutely Hollywood style to say the least. I stand in awe and wonder that you also have so many readers that would love to kill this man when the Jesus I know would pick him up, dust him off, and love him into healing. I am filled with grief in my spirit at the way you stand on your pedestal and shout "I Told You So" to the nation as your brother lays bleeding. I have lost alot of respect for Charisma and for you. I pray that God does not allow you to reap the same discord and division you sow or you too will find yourself in Todds shoes. I also pray that Todds marriage is resurrected from the dead and that his ministry thrives under the weight of his persecuters. I may not completely be comfortable with his ministry style but I also recognize that Jesus stirred the waters when He went around spitting on people! May the Lord have mercy on you! Pastor Chad Cline, Grove City Nazarene, Grove City, Ohio ccline@gccn.org
purplevkm
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:33 pm
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 1
With all the reports of multiple healings taking place, how many people actually accepted Christ as their personal Savior? Isn't that the ultimate goal of "revival?"
MaryroseE
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:42 pm
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:27 pm
Posts: 0
While I agree with you in principle Lee, I feel the sting of your harshness toward Todd Bentley. For God's sake he's only going through marital struggles! That is not the impardonable sin! Who hasn't gone through marital problems? I myself a married woman work on my marriage struggles on a daily basis! That does not disqualify me for ministry. I feel more of "aha gotcha" from reading your article than genuine concern they are separating due to tension.
midnightcry
Post subject: Re: Life After Lakeland: Sorting Out the Confusion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:00 pm
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:49 pm
Posts: 0
First, I want to say "thank you" for asking these questions...questions that many in the Body of Christ have been asking for a long time [even before Lakeland as this event is only the tip of the iceberg]. Unfortunately, I would be willing to guess that they will never be answered by those that "have positions of influence in charismatic circles."
Though many of us DID stand in our pulpits and warn, teach and help our people to discern rightly the Word of God and present day issues that were being passed along as God's handiwork, unfortunately, our influence was and still is much less than the influence of satellite TV, internet streaming, bloggers and large ministries that were the proponents of this "fiasco".
Derek Prince wrote many years ago what was quoted in this article about the anti-christ being revealed at a charismatic conference for the lack of discerning. What is sad is not that he said it, but that 15 years later, it still is true. We haven't learned and we sure haven't grown enough spiritually that we cannot discern blatant error as we have seen come out of Lakeland.
That being said, you have to wonder what will happen in churches when someone comes along that is so close to the real thing that it will demand very close scrutiny to the Word and to the fruit manifested?
· It's time to begin to walk the walk instead of just spouting the talk.
· It's time to search our hearts and be honest with what the Holy Spirit reveals to us.
· It's time for "leaders" to understand that leadership is more than a title or position...it requires accountability and action in difficult times.
· It's time to understand that a true heaven-sent refreshing comes with a price--repentance--there are no shortcuts!
I would like to think that something "good" will come out of this. However, like other man-made “revivals”, the lives of those left in the wake of scandal become fodder for the devil. The impact on the Body of Christ is huge and without an intervention by God, years of work will be required to try to restore faith, confidence and trust in the local church again.
I hope that J. Lee Grady will continue to ask the questions until there is a response by those that imparted their "mantle" of approval on this event in Lakeland. It’s time to hold their feet to the fire and demand straight answers and none of the wishy-washy stuff put out today by Peter Wagner and others in that camp. Time is too short to be trying to cover our backsides from pointing fingers. Expose the problems, cut out the spiritual cancer and bring healing once and for all.
13 comments:
I think this is all being blown out of proportion. Bentley is not Jesus, he is a human, made of the same mud as the rest of us. I have been to Lakeland twice and I still consider it a blessing. I took from it what I needed and left the rest. I saw some questionabe things, but I definately felt the Holy Spirit's presence. Remember, where the Holy Spirit is at work, Satan is working overtime! Bentley is not exempt from the problems of life and relationships. Get over it! He is not perfect, so who would like to cast the first stone? Satan is loving the response to Bentley's separation. Talk about gulable? Those of you who rebuke the Lakeland Outpouring, GodTV and all of their outreaches because of such a normal human issue are doing the devils work. Remember- he is not Jesus, look at the horrible mistakes David and Samuel made...they still had a heart for God. Let's not overreact here. God knows we are ALL going to mess up sooner or later!!!Thank God we have a SAVIOR...
What would anyone expect? You are the same bunch of suckers who re-elected Bush. We already know how fucking stupid you are.
Well said patti and midnightcry.
You can't discern if God is or was in something by if the people He uses stumbles or not, or else Jesus would have been the only person that God used...ever. I'm amazed of how many people "know" that Lakeland is false without ever having been there. And even some that maybe watched it are seeing the power of God work in testimonies of healing, deliverances, signs, wonders, miracles, and salvations, with Jesus getting all the Glory-- and Todd will head-butt somebody (hilarious-by the way) or say an angel visited him, and then they say that it's false or Todd's false and discredit everything.
Did some forget how many angelic visitations there are in the very same Bible that we put our faith in? I heard that God offends the mind to reveal the heart. Remember Jesus doing that to the scribes, Pharisees, and teachers of the Law, as people would say "the religious crowd". You think if Todd spit in a blind mans eyes(if God told him to), people would get offended, even if the eyes opened up? Of course they would because it would offend them in some way cause that's not what they were expecting, even though Jesus did it. If I would tell a story about me being transported to somewhere else like Evangelist Philip or me having a 3rd heaven experience like Apostle Paul or the old testament prophets had, you think some people would get offended and discredit me maybe? It's very possible and very sad. I think people need to actually question if they really believe what they read in the Bible and if they can really experience it themselves today.
Remember also that the natural man and mind cannot discern the things of the Spirit and that they are actually foolish to him, and to have your senses exercised to discern good and evil. Our God is obviously a Supernatural Spiritual Being, so not to expect Him to show Himself Supernaturally when, where, and through who He wants to would just be limiting Him. I've heard before that religion(most) and tradition limits God because man will see how God moved in one way in the past and write a book on it and say "Here's how God works" and base their doctrines and beliefs on that one thing. We need to stop limiting God by our mindsets and let His Kingdom come how He wants.
I know some that if they saw people coming out of a church acting drunk and full of joy would definitely be offended in their mind right off the bat, and judge it wrongfully. But then, if they happened to be in that same service where the Holy Spirit was moving and filling people having His way, they would know and discern that it is of God. I guess what I really am trying to say through all of this is can we get past being offended in the things we can't wrap our mind around? You think the devils not trying to stir up some discord and cause some friction between brothers?
I don't have all the "facts" but I love Todd and Shonnah Bently unto Jesus and support his ministry and it grieves me to know that they're having marital problems. I've had them before too on the brink of divorcing and it sucked, but prayers seen us through. Ask the Lord to give you His heart and perspective on the matter, instead of listening to others opinions.
It's a Love War that we're in. Jesus commanded us above all things to love God, ourselves, and one another. Jesus also said to "keep" the unity in the Spirit. It's obviously the most testing walk to love all. But hey, we're all human and have problems and tests one time or another, so instead of watching brothers stumble and kicking them when they're down, lets lift each other up as were commanded to. Lets not give the devil any help-
By the way, did you see what happened in Lakeland Florida when Todd wasn't there, and someone else had the mic? Same thing happened. The power of God in miracles, healings, deliverances, and salvations. And actually when Todd was in California same things happened. All Glory to God for His Goodness!
Lee, and all who are zealously sitting in the Judges seat, both on this outpouring and the man God chose to flow through,..the hebrew word lachash,..might be studied before you all feel so free to speak your judgements about this anointed, but in need of healing, brother in the Lord.
It is the word used to depict the unlawful practice of speaking against another, (not to him), but about him to another. It means,.. to mumble a spell.
"Christian" witchcraft is real, it is prevalent, and sadly it is widely accepted, even touted in this armchair critic age.
To think that it doesn't empower the enemies agenda is incredibly naive.
This man and this move have been loudly and widely cursed daily since it's inception.
Is everyone really so lacking in knowledge that they now wonder how this has happened? THE CURSE CAUSELESS DOES NOT COME. Todd likely has some remnants of the wounding from his abused past that need healed, but that is nothing compared to the abuse he and his family have suffered at the hands of his Christian "family". We always critcize what we don't understand,.or fear.
Were there some things that concerned the apostolic ministers who blessed,..(not ordained), Todd? Of course.
They, however, were seasoned enough to realize you don't help God's anointed by shooting at him.
And now, for their show of true kindness and love, they have become the target.
Though I pray for healing for Todd. it is repentance and healing for the religious crowd that is by far the more desperate need.
Received this email today:
Subject - Todd Bentley: 'Unhealthy Relationship' with Female Staffmember
[Source: Fresh Fire Ministries Board of Directors, August 15, 2008,
http://www.freshfire.ca/printpage_content.php?id=1065 ]
Aug 15 - From the Board of Directors
We wish to thank all of our friends and partners for the overwhelming flood of support and compassion we have received as a ministry on behalf of Todd and Shonnah Bentley. The many phone calls and emails of concern from people who genuinely love the Bentleys and Fresh Fire Ministries have been a great encouragement to all of us here during these past few days. In particular, the rallying of support and prayer for Todd and Shonnah by prominent leaders within the Body of Christ has been a beautiful indicator of the maturity and grace the Lord is bringing to his Bride.
We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life.
On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him.
When this ministry was initially birthed in May of 1998, Todd had but one simple desire in his heart – to see the world come to know Jesus. Now, only 10 years later, Fresh Fire Ministries has grown to become a Resource Center that is literally reaching out to all the corners of the Earth. There have been dozens of associate ministries, scores of interns and hundreds of graduates from the Supernatural Training Center. Over 60 nations have received a combined total of more than five million dollars in humanitarian aid and we have seen well over one million conversions for Jesus Christ.
And so, the question can well be asked... where do we go from here? It is true that we are deeply saddened by these recent events, but it hasn’t shaken our faith in either God or His goodness towards us and with the help of wise and compassionate leaders within the body, we will do everything within our power to see our brother and sister healed and restored.
As a ministry, we can not forsake the vision and heartbeat upon which Todd Bentley founded Fresh Fire Ministries which is simply this:
Matthew 10:7-8
And as you go, Preach, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
While Todd and Shonnah each go through the necessary steps towards restoration and wholeness, we are compelled, with the resources with which God has entrusted us, to continue to spread God’s love and power all over the world.
There are many noble activities and endeavors in which Fresh Fire Ministries is involved, initiated by Todd, and to which we are still committed. We have the Supernatural Training Centre, our school of ministry, already in it’s fourth full year and with more than 50 students already enrolled we’re believing for an amazing year of biblical instruction, practical application and encounters with the presence of God. Many mature and gifted speakers and associates, graduated interns and teachers filled brim-full with the DNA and fire of this ministry are ready to pour revelation and passion into the hungry hearts of this coming year’s student body.
We will continue to host conferences in our region with speakers and worship leaders from around the nation whose message and mandates resonate with the vision and heart of Fresh Fire Ministries. In addition, we are committed to supporting the growing “OutPourings” across North America and around the world with our Associates, with encouragement and prayer support. In Todd’s own words, “What God is doing is bigger than one man”, and we now have a golden opportunity as the Body of Christ to pick up the baton and to run with perseverance for His glory.
Our missions department is progressing, as previously mentioned, with our major African crusade. With close to 100 team members in attendance, excitement is beginning to build and team members have responded that they are still believing God for the most amazing missions trip ever! Our Uganda Jesus Village in Kampala is forging ahead with the recent acquisition of 35 acres of land 30 minutes drive from our present location. Two of the 15 homes planned for the property are nearing completion, and the expanded village, when finished, will house almost 150 orphans rescued from war torn northern Uganda.
So whether in our Children’s Home in Africa, in our Supernatural Training Centre in British Columbia, in the revival meetings and outpourings spreading around the globe, or in taking teams to minister compassion and practical assistance to the poor in the far corners of the Earth, we have been and still are committed to bringing love, hope and a demonstration of the saving, healing, delivering power of the Gospel to a world in need.
Thank you all once again for your prayers and support. We bless each and every one of you in whatever decision you must make. Please know that our heart in all of this is to see the name of the Lord vindicated, and we take great encouragement from Psalm 23 and the Lord’s promise that He will “lead us in paths of righteousness for His name’s sake.” Together we look to the mercy and wisdom of our loving Father and we remain as ever, your brothers and sisters in Christ.
The Fresh Fire Board of Directors
After literally months of public gossip,criticism, and slander,..the glee and the hubris of the fault-finders is more than a little disturbing.
It is also quite telling of the true spirit behind it all.
"Look,..he bleeds!"
After how many shots from "friendly fire".... You think?
If any of the critics were doing anything for God other than the false ministry of being oracles for the accuser of the brethren,..do they really think they would have fared well under the fury of such an attack?
But the enemy isn't attacking them because he is using them as pawns. God have mercy on each one.
And Lee,you are stuck in the middle.
I exhort you to not be pushed by the self-righteous to mimic our secular media's treacherous and arrogant ways. They have long since left off reporting, and now feel they are the shapers of thought for the masses.
Lee makes it sound like anyone and everyone who supported Lakeland were a bunch of gullible, non discerning, bimbos that have our eyes fixed on a man and not the Lord. What did Lee say? "The news shocked Bentley's adoring fans". I don't recall adoring Todd Bentley. "Many of us would rather watch noisy demonstration of miracles . . .than have a quiet Bible study". After Lakeland my husband and I can not get enough quiet Bible study, on our face prayer time, and deep (not surface) fellowship with believers. I'm angry that I am now classified in some eyes that I have "no discernment and would follow the anti-Christ". And I don't believe (unless I really am stupid and non discerning) that "there may be large numbers of people who feel they've been burned by Bentley. Some may give up on church and join the growing ranks of bitter, disenfranchised Christians". Really?? I have never been more encouraged in my walk with Christ that Jesus is alive and very active ~ so why would I want to give up now? Frankly, I gave up on "church" (as it was) a long time ago but now I have hope that we the church can be what we were called to be. My heart breaks for Todd and Shonna and the attacks against their marriage but I have never honestly looked to Todd for revival ~ but to God ~ and He can use whomever and however he chooses and all I know is that in seeking God first and foremost I am experiencing revival in my personal walk with Him. Being around hungry people has increased my hunger for more of the Lord and has made me want "meat" like never before! People around us have even commented on the positive changes that they see God doing in my husband and my life. I thought that we were displaying good fruit.
The bible said that we must not judge or we will be judge. This revival was not about Todd it was about the out pouring of the holy spirit, the problem with socall christians is that we worship a man and have unrealistic expectations and when they failed us we all wants to kill them. Todd is not God he is just a man and if we could take our eyes off of man and keep it on God we would not be disapointed because His word said He will never leave us nor forsake us. Shame on all of you the devil is having a field day with all of you gossipers. I was truley blessed by attending Lakeland revival.
The bible said that we must not judge or we will be judge. This revival was not about Todd it was about the out pouring of the holy spirit, the problem with socall christians is that we worship a man and have unrealistic expectations and when they failed us we all wants to kill them. Todd is not God he is just a man and if we could take our eyes off of man and keep it on God we would not be disapointed because His word said He will never leave us nor forsake us. Shame on all of you the devil is having a field day with all of you gossipers. I was truley blessed by attending Lakeland revival.
Hello friend,
You say
"The bible said that we must not judge or we will be judge."
The Lord Jesus Christ tells us in John 7:24, "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
You say
"This revival was not about Todd it was about the out pouring of the holy spirit"
Please show me where in the Bible it talks about a 'revival'?
You say
"the problem with socall christians is that we worship a man and have unrealistic expectations and when they failed us we all wants to kill them."
Who wants to kill anyone? Killing our flesh & dying to self, yes, but many of us are praying for repentance in the body of Christ. Galatians 2:20 says,
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. And Galatians 5:24 says
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
You say
"Todd is not God he is just a man and if we could take our eyes off of man and keep it on God we would not be disapointed because His word said He will never leave us nor forsake us."
Amen! And if put our eyes on God, we would not need to go to Lakeland (or anywhere else) but rather to His Word as we fall on our knees in repentance and thanksgiving.
You say
"Shame on all of you the devil is having a field day with all of you gossipers. I was truley blessed by attending Lakeland revival."
If you think the teachings and behavior at Lakeland is Bible based, you need to re-read the Scriptures.
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20 KJV) For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.2 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Todd Bentley he was ordained by the Revival Alliance, a group made up of prominent charismatic ministers who ordained Bentley the evangelist
http://www.charismamag.com/cms/news/archives/081208a.php
but the fact that too many of today's pastors are ordained, DO have official papers undeniably does not seem to stop 55 percent of the pastors from committing adultery, or 70 percent of the pastors falsely counseling, or practicing divorce and who knows what else?
gossiping, slandering and I too was really was surprised how many pastors I had personally met at the pastoral fellowships who did did these unacceptable bad things.
but somehow the preacher who preach one thing themselves too often do the other still too.. I too would rather see a sermon practiced over on merely preached
Speaking of false prophets, it seems to me that too many of the critics on the net can spot the phones too quickly cause they themselves are phonies... and many others as well..
WHEN I ENCOUNTER SO MANY bad people who try to abuse me, dominate over me on the net, in churches now too, actually someone they likely do not know and I have rather likely never met ,it says CLEARLY HOW FALSELY THEY THEMSELVES NOW ARE RATHER TO ME.
and have you all not noticed the void of any Bible references, quotations on the supposedly prominent professing Christian discussions internet sites and is it cause they know they are spiritual phonies, or they really do not know the Bible to be able to discuss it? or what still wrongfully ashamed of it too?
http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/reverend-todd-bentley-versus-republican-mom-sarah-palin/
The Lord remains the one at the center of christianity .!!
though todd has fallen this in no way gives the right to any to pass judgement i say this not to stir a pot but for your protection.simply put todd is just like you me and the rest of humanity a man in need of grace. for many years some of us have seen and known and spoken in regards to the thigs transpiriing and sadly words spoken in this regard have now come to fruition. However God loves todd you me and the world for which was the only purpose God came in the form of man . Now friends of God we have a real chance to stand in the one true spirit of grace .not to attack the enemy with words but to attack with power.to overcome the works he has manifested with grace love and wisdom. Who cares what peter c wagner says or anyone else they are just men and no one can hide outside the spectrum of God.folks take your eyes off the man and put them back on God it is all about HIM and HIS purposes not man.it is quite devastating what has happened to our brother and the consequential effects it has rippled through the body But be not deceived God is not mocked and simply the man now reaps what he has sown the same as any one of us would/will do. todd was raised (elevated)by you and i not the spirit of God .he was lifted to a place of being godlike instead of standing against it as the apostles of old did (paul comes to mind rending his garment because of their desire to elevate him.) Friends we are the body. We are the ones in whom Christ has been Manifest! We are the ones for whom Jesus came and died for ,and friends we are HIS representative. now sin is sin todd is wrong but he is one man if your going to address this adress it on the grande scale speak of the many bound in pornography and adultery (really there is no difference) todd is not the only one and he is not responsible for all the hurt he was deceived and in turn deceived but grace is for him too! friends just like us i know him. i know that he had a heart simply to see God move.however many surrounded him in the past years. when your pastor becomes part of your ministry there is 0 distinction between the pastored(overseen) and the leader(overseer) money flooded in and money filtered into acf now called global harvest center.no one has been blind here his ministry has been infiltrated by the enemy for quite some time.so then friends is it wise for us to scrutinize the one man that we elevated?? repent stop all this foolish talk speak the truth in LOVE no one is a celebrity in God so let’s stop making them ourselves no one is saved by themselves it is a gift don’t forget that .
Your little brother
William
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