Flim Flam Frauds and Fakes

The Lord Jesus Christ says in Luke 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Benny Hinn

Kim Clement

Peter Popoff

David Schirmer and 'The Secret' Scam

John Hagee

Joel Osteen

TRANSCRIPT (Complete Transcript from June 20, 2005 program):

Joel Osteen Sr. Pastor of Largest U.S. Congregation, Lakewood Church, Houston, TX

Joel Osteen, on Larry King Live (1 min 10 sec)

O. “… the essence of the Christian faith.

K. Do you think we live in deeds?

O. I don’t know. What do you mean by that?

K. Because we’ve had ministers on who’ve said, “Your record don’t count. You either believe in Christ or you don’t. If you believe in Christ you are, you are going to heaven. If you don’t, no matter what you’ve done in your life, you ain’t.

O. Yeah, I don’t know… there’s probably a balance between… I think you have to know Christ but I think that if you know Christ, if you’re a believer in God, you’re going to have some good works. I think it’s a cop out to say, “Well, I’m not a Christian, but I don’t ever do anything to help…”

K. What if you are Jewish or Muslim and you don’t accept Christ at all?

O. You know I just, I’m very careful about saying who would or wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know. I think God…

K. If you believe, you have to believe in Christ.

O I believe…

K. They’re wrong, aren’t they?

O. Well, I don’t know if I believe their wrong. Here’s what the Bible teaches from the Christian faith. This is what I believe but I just think only God can judge a person’s heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father and you know, I don’t know all about their religion but I know they love god. And I don’t know. I’d have to… I’ve seen their sincerity, so I don’t know. I just, I know for me and from what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus but...

K. The Senate apologized last week for slavery…

--- end ---

Joel Osteen: Smile When You Lie

Billy Graham

Kenneth and Gloria Copeland

Brownsville - Pensacola

Creflo Dollar - It's About Money

Paula White

Patricia King - mystical/demonic 'whooa!'

Juanita Bynum explains how the "next level of anointing" works: "You gotta be able to slit somebody's throat."

Joyce Meyer (God or Mammon?: Carter Conlon)

George Bush, Billy Graham and Robert Schuller

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


GaryBissitt said…
Hey there.

I saw on that list Joel Osteen...I have watched his preaching and from what I have seen I find little fault. As a human, and in the physical, fault is bubbling forth from all of creation.

But in a person who truly loves God, hopefully their heart will not be misled. The way that God Jehovah will minister to his children is through our hearts. If indeed our hearts want the truth more than all others, our heads, our very thoughts will be under an authority that is inspired of God, if a persons heart IS seeking truth.

As far as I can see (if I am wrong then forgive me) Joel Osteen is preaching mostly a message of hope and and what many will call "feel good" ministries. Does this bring any godly condemnation upon him? Rather than a condemnation for him, God will accredit unto Joel blessings that were due to him according to his message that did glorify God and Jesus. As far as punishments from God, in a persons day of jugement, if they be Christian, the question will be to us, "What were the things that you did for me?" For a person NOT of God, their judgment will be strictly on condemnation.

Joel Osteen may be a man that mostly speaks of "feel good" things but even this is not a reason of condemnation. Please open your Bible to Philippians 4:8 and read what it says:

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

The Apostle Paul was telling us to think about such things. Was he telling us to fully accept such things as the incorruptible word of God? No. He was letting us know that good things all originate from God, and anything that is good is still not a reason to bring forth or consider condemnation.

As far as your issue with Joel Osteen, I can not judge him for his actions and neither do I desire to do so. I see him as a man who wishes to see others do well and live better lives. A cause for condemnation? Absolutely not, but it is a cause to understand one other thing.

Joel Osteen, I would hope that I speak the truth when I say this, is a man who's heart is seeking God. Even though his words may not always speak of Jesus, it should be clear to see that he at least does base his ministry upon the goodness that God has allowed him to speak of.

And so what is more important in regards to misleading information? Surly God has and will judge any who mislead his children. And what is it for those that do not glorify the name of Jesus and God Jehovah at all? Surly they will not receive everlasting life with God. But what of those who do speak well of Jesus and do say with their mouths the true things about Jesus? Because they do not constantly speak of Jesus, does this make them NOT Christians?

It would hurt my heart if I were God and I knew that my children whom I loved ALL, to see them tell each other that they were not acceptable in the eyes of God. God wants all of his creation to know his love and ANYONE who will accept his Son Jesus into their lives is acceptable to God and let no man, woman, child, beast, angel, demon, force, power or ANYTHING come in between our love that God wants us to see and share with all Romans 8:38-39

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Let me tell you something good about Joel Osteen. His heart is a meek heart in ways; his voice is soft spoken and he DOES glorify Jesus name and the authority in which Jesus be given power forever and ever amen! Joel did not go to a college from what I know of in concerns for where his education did spring forth from. This even should never be used against him for how many countless people all through out history were called to do God's will who were far under qualified? EVERYONE who God called before his majesty was purified in accordance to be of proper us for the purpose of leading people in to righteousness. These people before may have been corrupt but one thing about ALL of those people before God did call them was that God had seen into their hearts and saw that they had the ability to be correctable in the manner of the heart in which God directs all of us.

The Apostle Paul is my example for this. You know his story, as you being a sister in Christ Jesus you can see what I am saying. His heart at one time was evil...but it had the ability as far as God could see (not man) to be changed and to follow the truth. He became a man who's heart only desired to do good things and for God.

So what I am saying is that even people who seem to be fakes or otherwise, let us consider some key things ABOUT the fruit that they produce firstly.

Joel Osteen I would think that at least his HEART is mainly focused on Jesus. His mind and other earthly desires can close off goodness from God if his heart which God is speaking to is ignored. Since his writings and publications of books and CD's he has indeed became a rich man. It would be easy for MANY to be corrupted by money and power, and for this reason, if he is not careful to allow his heart to direct him that it could be one day deceived by riches and earthly desires.

For these people who love God with their heart, usually it is fair to say that this alone is reason for praise. Joel Osteen may be a rich man, but can you imagine that it is possible that his money that he gets is due to blessings from God?

We humans see all reason to doubt, all reasons to condemn, all reasons do mock and everything of this sort when it comes to people who appear godly yet are rich. Jesus did say that it is harder for rich man to enter heaven then it is for a camel to walk through an eye of a needle. Obviously this is truth, and in about 99% of all rich people I would say this is true. Only a very small amount of people who are rich also choose to truly follow God; Matthew 19:23-24.

My real reason to tell you to consider to take Joel Osteen off of this list i because while I was listening to his preaching on the TV, it has brought me closer to God, and this reaction which was caused by Joel preaching was ultimately brought forth by the goodness from God. I realize you have some reason possibly even scripturally that proves yourself correct about a matter concerning Joel Osteen. Your judgment to him should only consist in a physical form since our rights to judge a fellow Christian's spiritual side is to God and Jesus. If by the flesh Joel is found fault, it is OK to point out his sin. If by his spirit he sins, Jesus is his judge.

I say that Joel is in my eyes a person who seeks God and wishes others to see love. His other mannerisms of the flesh should be dealt with outside of a spiritual matter. Since it is proven that the flesh is not perfect, in accordance to faith we may be judges of the flesh when dealing with fellow Christians. When dealing with people who have not accepted Christ, we are given rights to judge their spiritual condition by simply knowing that it be wicked and ALREADY being condemned by God. The one in faith with Jesus Christ should be judged by God Jehovah and Jesus only in accordance to spiritual matters.

So if you disagree in a spiritual matter with Joel, be ever in prayer and try not to condemn his spiritual actions unless they result in a physical outcome that causes others to sin too.

It is simply my opinion that Joel is a man who's heart is not bad, but it appears to love goodness and to love Jesus.

All that I have just said to you, let it not flare in you anger for me, I am simply saying that thus far, I can see goodness from his faith in Jesus though his fleshly side be imperfect.

It is better to be uplifting with good things to be said and done rather than to argue and create a conflict that tears at the goodness that Jesus Christ wishes for all Christians.
Cathy said…
Hi Gary,

Today, I added the transcript for the 1 min 10 sec video clip of Osteen talking with King and I couldn't help but notice that in that short time, Joel said, "I don't know" SEVEN (7) times which averages out to once every 10 seconds - thought that was interesting considering at the time, he was Senior Pastor of the biggest church in America.

So let's look at what Joel said keeping in mind that the Lord Jesus Christ tells us in Matthew 12: "I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Larry King asks a basic question we Christians always get: will a person go to heaven if they don't believe in Christ?

This is where a Christin MUST speak the truth in love: "No, Larry, no one goes to heaven by good deeds. None of us is good enough. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. You see, our sin separates us from a Holy God and that's why He sent His only begotten Son Who lived a sinless life, was crucified on a cross, shed his blood and rose from the dead. You see, Larry, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. God commendeth his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Larry, if you confess with you mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So that's the Good News - isn't that wonderful, Larry?"

Okay, that's an example of what a TRUE CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and loves the person would say.

Not, "I don't know... blah blah blah ... people in India love god... blah blah blah"

It is disgusting what Joel Osteen said, or rather what he DIDN'T say to Larry King AND to everyone watching.

Face it, Joel Osteen is a man-pleaser and men pleasers CAN NOT please God.

Of course, if Joel was preaching the TRUE Gospel, they'd never have him on Larry King Live.

Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 2:2-6
"But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention. For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."

May we never be men-pleasers but rather may we obey the Lord at all times.
GaryBissitt said…
I do agree with what the Bible says. It does indeed say in those scriptures that you mentioned that they will be judged, and rightly so.

If I allowed someone who for some reason had been recording me to post 1 minute and 10 seconds of any part of my life that they wanted to, I can imagine that if that person didn't like me or had something against me or disagreed with me, the next morning or maybe within minutes the police would be at my door and I would be hauled off to jail! I would be found guilty of terrible things and by the laws of this land, I would probably be locked away for a good long time.

Hold that same thing to ANYONE alive today and show me a person who would not feel utterly terrible for the bad things that they have done, especially if since the time of the accused incident was LONG since forgiven by God, and then it was placed at the mercy of people who do not see fit to forgive such things.

So as you who hold the very judgment of Joel Osteen and openly speak the truth regarding his faults in his spiritual nature, it is fair to say that it is pointless to hold a disgust in your heart against a man for all you know (or do not know) God could love him just as much as he loves you too.

The scripture you put forth against his lack of not saying everything to convince you that he is a Christian, is also based on a 1 minute and 10 second clip of him not being able to possibly show and tell everything that needed to be explained. Larry King (nothing against him either) had to hold Joel to a schedule which consisted of a rapid fire scenario of questions that hardly anyone who would be on his show would have been able to answer fully unless they also be an auctioneer. So for you to say and believe in your heart that he is not a Christian, and as you said it yourself:

Okay, that's an example of what a TRUE CHRISTIAN who loves the Lord and loves the person would say.

Your comment is being said with a judgment that we should not be willing to make lest we be held to that same standard our own self.

Is it true that he is a man pleaser so to speak? Is it true that he has not said enough on Larry King Live to convince you that he is a true Christian? Obviously yes, but considering that I am willing to bet since you have a thought in your heart of hearts that he is a wicked man (is that what you think?) that you have not actually sat and watched his services and church meeting on TV or the internet which would probably show you the truth of what he believes and where he stands.

Did you know that Jesus' brother James didn't fully accept Jesus to be who he claimed to be till AFTER Jesus was already back into heaven? Can you imagine how Jesus felt when he came to visit his blood relatives and how his brother most likely shook his head when he saw him? Do you think that Jesus felt hurt in some way or that he was angry with his brother for not believing him?

So likewise when you bring a very painful thing to the knowledge of a person regarding their relationship with their savior Jesus Christ and claim that they have not Christ in them (which is the same as calling Joel a person who is not a true Christian) then do you realize that the faith that you might have possibly violated in that persons heart would be held against you if they should completely turn from God and believe no more? Have you considered that a news broadcast is prone to strict regulations in which before Joel went on air was possibly told certain things that he was and WAS NOT allowed to say? Have you thought that maybe because you have decided that by his lack of saying the exact right things based on human imperfection that he just didn't say it the way that everyone so hoped he would say it?

I have to admit it myself; I wish he HAD said the thing that you wrote down there, it would have pleased God and would have pleased your mind as well...but oh wait...it's not you who needs to be pleased right? Forgive my sarcasm, but do you see this sort of? While he didn't say exactly as he should have said to assure you that he was a true Christian, he aslo had in mind the deeper things of God's will that NO MAN can understand, hence a lot of "I don't know's". He wasn't saying "I don't know" because of a faith issue, but rather because some questions that he was asked by Larry, had Joel answered from logic or in a blunt manner would have hurt yet ANOTHER PERSON who was listening who may have been from India who's faith should not and is not under a righteous judgment from Joel. Joel knew that what he said on air would be ridiculed, scrutinized and tore to pieces, so rather than pleasing men with a blanket of giggles and joy, he simply admitted that "he didn't know" providing him the room to not be judged by God who judges all.

So when he did not say what you had expected him to say that would have then be pleasing to you, you pretty much held him into a position in which you judged his heart...and for that you have been in error.

Had you judged his nature in a physical way, if he had been guilty of something in the obvious, you would rightly be open to offer a mode of correction. But since his sin of not saying everything that need be said in such short time was a reason that YOU have failed to see him as a Christian, does not exempt him from God's love just because your judgment pronounced him "not a true Christin". His day of judgment is coming, as is yours. Are you perfect? Have you ever said things against God even in the slightest in which you would be hurt to have another Christian hold them to your face and declare you not with Christ? Even before you walked with Jesus Cathy, even before you knew God's name, you were loved deeply by God.

Before you were born and before your mother was born, God knew you. You know that I am speaking the truth because you have read this in the Bible. God has called you as he has called me and as he has called Joel. As Christians, our love for one another is to be the most evident thing of all; and this is how the world shall know that we belong to Christ; John 13:35.

By pointing at the flaws of his message, you are pointing at your flaws too. Have you not ever been unkind before? Has there ever been a time in which you didn't say something in full because you are pressed for time? If someone called you a liar and you knew that you were not, how do you think this makes Joel feel if supposedly he would hear you speak this way about him? You have got to allow the love of Jesus to permeate your mind and heart so as to overlook a brother or sisters wrongs who be in Christ in order that you let the proper judge do his job so you wont be guilty of a thing.

Had you not proclaimed to be Christian I would have spoken half more as harshly to you but that is not the way God wants us to treat one another. You, a bold sister in Christ Jesus who loves the Lord Jesus and God Jehovah has every right to praise God and to judge the evil ones of this world in some ways. But one thing that we don't have the permission to do is to judge our brothers and sisters in Christ according to their spiritual condition. Yeah, we don't have to be happy with their lack of saying something in accordance to the truth, but we also should not curse them for the effort goodness that they set forth either; may it be a great effort or a small effort, if it was an effort that glorified Jesus or God then it remains good.

As he is the Senior Pastor of his church, Jesus is his judge most definitely! But by our judgments against THEM who do not say nearly enough about Christ Jesus or God's will, we have most certainly set THAT SAME judgment upon our self. Surly you will agree that you haven't said all you should either, you simply can not disagree as I couldn't disagree either. So I tell you with love to stop it! See to it that before you judge anyone who claims to be a Christian that you gather as many details as you can about the person; including evidence against them that shows clear disloyalties to God and Jesus. When he didn't say as much as he should have regarding Jesus, see that he was pressed for time due to the regulations of the news channel. I believe that if he was allowed to talk for a full hour without being interrupted that you would think differently about this man.

So I set you to a task; go and see if he has cause to be judged on the physical part in which God has no doubt already forgave him, and then go and see if his spirituality is against Christ and THEN you can try and judge him. For anything that we do and DO NOT do that God wants us to do or do not do, God has given Jesus authority to judge, not any man.

I know that since you are a woman of faith and a Christian that you will look into this soon. And so I will be checking back to see that you have.

Very soon it will come to a point that it would be better to be guilty of not condemning a person rather than condemning them to a revengeful death. To say that you have the right to judge is also to say that you have a right to condemn and this only also concludes that you have the authority to kill and be blameless before God also. But thank God that we do not have the right to judge anyone spiritually unless they are clearly wicked in which case judgment is already upon them from Jesus and we should try not to further their judgment unless it is in your personal defense!

I hope that you see where I'm coming from; you should have a thought of love that guides your pronouncements when concerning a matter such as this. Do not allow your conclusion be be judgmental unless they confess in clear ways that they be evil. If they confession is clear that they be of Jesus, also we should know that we shouldn't even think thoughts of badness about them unless you have knowledge that they have misled someone away from the truth.

You know what to do, and I know that because you have Jesus in your heart that if not now, but later maybe you will see that what was said was good. I am not good, but the love of God has been resting in my heart as I spoke to you on the internet and that things will be clear to you fully. This is why I do not worry about you; you got Jesus in you! Even the things that God has not shown to me on this matter I know that he will show to you so that you will be pleased BY GOD, and yet still know that Joel Osteen is not here to please men, but he is here to pronounce God's love, and as you have seen, he considers even the things that we don't understand and says "I don't know" so as to not bring judgment onto himself. So maybe you should consider the things that you don't know about Joel so that you will not condemn yourself.

I know God will bless you. No one is perfect in their quest to do good and even good things are now looked at as bad by the untrained heart. And it is true too that some very bad things as presumed good, my example is the new video game that came out, "Grand Theft Auto 4". Thank God that these clear bad things are known to us and may we always pray to be humble so as to be close to the voice of God that our hearts can hear his awesome whispers of truth.