Here are a few quotes regarding 'soaking prayer', something I used to do but not any longer.
Please prayerfully consider the following:
"In order to gauge whether or not soaking prayer is a valid form of prayer or communication to God, we must first look to God’s word. Prayer in its purest form is calling on the name of God and in every scriptural example is a done as a form of communication with the Lord. Although at first glance soaking prayer may seem that it follows this model of prayer it does not. Like most lies of the enemy a closer look will reveal a different picture. Soaking prayer involves a trance like meditative or contemplative state in which the adherent is encouraged to empty their mind. This type of prayer seeks to experience God’s presence through mystical exercises which teeters dangerously on the edge of the esoteric. As believers we understand that God’s presence is ever with us and when we come to prayer it is with His will in mind not ours." source
"Soaking Prayer is nothing more than contemplative / centering / listening prayer and is used for occult meditation. The Elijah List website sells a broad range of Soaking Prayer CDs, packaged as contemplative soaking, soaking worship, spontaneous worship, saturating, prophetic worship." source
"Soaking & being slain in the spirit are occult. There is a short answer and a long answer. The long one is given in True to His Ways. The short one is that it is Satan and his demons only who are at work in both yoga and Charismatic spirituality. We know this, because both are occult. The occult is Satan’s territory, and is where we meet with him and his demons. God simply cannot be found in the occult. Occultism is how Satan and his angels deceive, seduce, beguile, terrorize and defile their victims." source
"So how did Bentley purport to get into that secret place? He explains that in another session from the same conference in his message entitled, "Soaking." In that message he said that he began to practice "contemplative prayer" something he said he learned from studying the lives of mystics such as Brother Lawrence and an Indian mystic named Sundar Singh. He said that this silence launched his ministry after three months of soaking (meditating in an altered state of consciousness) culminated in a physical encounter with Jesus Christ who stood behind him and spoke to him audibly." source
Needless to say, soaking prayer is not something true Christians should be embrasing but rather, we should be renounce it.
blessings & love,
Cathy
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
1 Corinthians 4
SEPTEMBER 19, 2014 UPDATE
Received the following email this morning from Jan - also added my reply:
Dear Cathy....I so appreciate your comments about soaking prayer. I too have repented and moved away from this and other elements of prayer ministries that do not match with scripture.
I was in a church where a locally renowned prayer minister joined our body via marriage. I have also been to other prayer ministries, and eventually came (with the Lord’s help through scripture) to my own “what-in-the-world-have-I-been-thinking?” moment. I have asked how I ever got “into” those ministries and have concluded that my flesh (I want to be as gifted and spiritual as those folks) was at play....although I never would have admitted all that at the time. Mixed in was also a desire to experience all God had for me. You may notice a theme of I’s, me’s, my’s.
To again go to the Lord without a special priest (prayer minister) is just what our Father ordered. I remember meditating on the verse in Psalms that says the Lord is a very present help in trouble. I kept wondering (as I traveled for work) why He said VERY. Present is present.....why VERY present?
When I could look it up, the very means vehemently present (no mystical experience required). He is THERE. Your blog was a reminder of that.
I do have a question about “discernments” some prayer ministers get.....and they seem to spread to others in training. I think the bottom line is that these things are not from the Holy Spirit, but I would appreciate any insight you may have. (By the way, you may find this question your blog comment section as well. Somehow I messed up the email address there so it doesn’t work.....hence, a longer version in your email.)
The woman at my former church “sees” what she calls discernments: one was a large snake crawling up her unclothed body that her husband had to make leave. She describes watching a demon “lumbering” up the stairs in her home; animals, etc. Her students then begin to see demons (even in Christians) such as prostitution...or other demons in a home or building. As these “gifts” accumulate, more and more are in awe of them....even elders. Some of these ministers do the praying FOR vulnerable believers.....and tell them the next steps the Lord wants them to take. Why not pray WITH people and mentor them biblically in prayer....so there won’t be a top-down priesthood thing?
Enough said. I would appreciate your input.
MY REPLY
Good morning, Jan,
Thank you for you email and kind words regarding my blog. Much of what I post is to raise awareness as well as help me to process everything I read and am learning.
These days, I pretty much avoid organized churches and ministers altogether even though I'm sure there are a few good ones out there... somewhere... maybe. Anyway, it's been quite the journey and the Lord Jesus Christ has been and continues to be faithful each step of the way, as you no doubt are experiencing.
I've had to repent of A LOT of unscriptural behavior as I traveled down some pretty bizarre roads. It came to a screeching halt in 2005 while living in Berlin, Germany, as a missionary with FIRE International, a ministry offshoot of Brownsville 'revival'. My story is on my blog but basically, I had been praying for the Lord to heal my heart and expose any lies I was believing. Then BAM! He opened my eyes to much of the deception all around me. It was shocking and it totally rocked my world but today, I am thankful.
Not sure how to answer your questions except if it's not in the Bible (preferable King James - not the New King James either) and you don't have peace about it, don't do it. My 2 cents.
blessings to you,
Cathy
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
1 John 2:27
63 comments:
I appreciate your post but I do completely disagree. If you look at the number of scriptures that command us to be still before the lord it is staggering. Be still and know that I am God.
You haven't cited a single supporting verse in your post. It's true that there are similarities to the occult. But Satan can only counterfeit or corrupt something that God has already created. He is not creative.
I would encourage you to seriously search the scriptures as soaking prayer has been an incredible tool that God has used to completely change my life. In the stillness and quiet He has brought peace to my heart and set me free from sin and really developed a passion and a hunger in my heart for more of Him.
Thanks for stopping by, David.
I agree that being still before the Lord is essential for every believer.
However, the term 'soaking prayer' is not in the scriptureI believe it to be a questionable exercise which I've partaken of at IHOP and other places and have since repented.
Found this:
"Sensuality, common in society, has indeed invaded the church. As noted previously, Teresa of Avila experienced “spiritual ecstasy” which was defined as “divine intimacy.” Many in the charismatic church, in a practice known as “soaking prayer” where one is directed to empty ones mind completely and trance-like states are not uncommon, have reported such experiences. According to Paul Gowdy, Carol Arnott, a leader at the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship, reports that “she had her bride experience where she was taken into the very presence of Jesus and said that the love that she experienced was even better than sex” (13). Gowdy, an acquaintance of mine, was formerly pastor of a Vineyard church in Toronto which was a sister church to TACF, then known as the Toronto Vineyard."
source: http://www.simplykristal.org/blog/?p=1134
Here's another quote by Kent Philpott
"Some leaders get tingling in their hands, some have their hands get warm when healing is about to occur, some feel "power surges" going through their bodies. Some claim that they see a person's "aura" when soaking a person in prayer. Soaking means pouring out lots of prayer over a person, often with laying on of hands and/or passing the hands over a person. It is reminiscent of what is called "Therapeutic Touch" [Reiki] practiced by new age and alternative medicine enthusiasts. People who believe in soaking prayer get the sense that power is passing through their bodies and actually helping to bring healing, comfort and love. And those who are soaking someone testify that they feel waves coming from the person or going toward the person being prayed for. Certainly something may be felt or experienced, however, is it the Holy Spirit?"
source: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/soakingprayer.htm
To me, it is best to stay away from 'soaking prayer' and simply spend time with Lord Jesus Christ and meditating on His Word.
May the Truth be revealed, may the lies be exposed, may the deceived wakeup, may the sinner repent, may the lost get saved and may the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified I pray.
blessings,
Cathy
God's ways are not are ways. The Holy Spirit moves in awesome and powerful ways to change lives to be more like Jesus. Spending time in His presence cannot hurt anyone. The Gifts of the Spirit are still very much alive because He is alive and working in and through us. Soaking in His presence and becoming more like Jesus is wonderful! When soaking in His presence you are spending time meditating on His Word and His character. You are also allowing Him to communicate to you. That is what prayer is. A two-way communication between you and God. I, myself, am very careful not to criticize a move of God or the Holy Spirit. Total surrender to Him and allowing Him to make us and mold us happens as we are in His presence. Believer's today are really lacking in spending time with the Lord in worship. We must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a spirit. We must connect spirit to spirit in the truth of His Word.
It is also my prayer that the lost get saved and the saved get discipled and learn how to flow with the Holy Spirit and His gifts to reach a lost and dying world.
Blessings,
Donna
I believe that Satan always counterfeits everything that is good. I have experienced soaking prayer and would encourage believers to soak up the experience of listening to God's voice and the Holy Spirit for that is what soaking prayer is! Anything that tells you to go into a trance is wrong but we all need discernment for anything that is spiritual. Being in God's presence is uplifting and intimate.One is aware of everything that is going on in soaking prayer if it is in line with God's word. Soaking prayer is not about praying over people it is about individual people meeting with God and that is what Jesus did. People should not be told to empty their minds - they are told to focus on Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It is sad when something good is destroyed by so-called 'well-meaning' people who want to control
others. Don't forget that the enemy is about and wanting to rob us and destroy everything that is good. Don't let him rob you of intimacy with the Father! We are told to check out things by their fruit. I have seen wonderful fruit come out of prayer soaking when it is in line with the word.
Why not just prayer. Why the 'soaking'? No where in scripture do we read this phrase. It is misleading and creates confusion.
Prayer to God and our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ, is always good and two favorite verses I have on my wall are:
"Be still and know that I am God." Psalm 26:10
"In quietness and in confidence shall be your strength." Isaiah 30:15
You are spot on Cathy. Can we reference this "soaking" in scripture? No. Do we see this modeled in the life of Jesus? No. Keep on standing for truth!
I agree with Janette McNally. Perhaps, Cathy, you have learned to empty your mind. That is not at all what I have been taught. I have been taught to think as Janette described and submit to the Holy Spirit alone. Of course, as in the rest of life, we need to take all our thoughts captive to Jesus. Jesus spent much time early in the morning talking with His heavenly Father. There are many references to Jesus taking time alone with His Father. He did not say or do anything except exactly what His Father said to do and say. He did not have a Bible to meditate on. Perhaps the time Jesus spent with His Father was like what we term 'soaking'. We need to be careful with soaking prayer for sure. But you must also be careful that you are not throwing away a valuable gift that you don't properly know how to use and then tell others not to use it either. I am saying this as one who has been deceived. I was experiencing physical manefestations during intercessory prayer that I thought were from God but were actually torment from Satan. I was made aware of it and understood by revelation through prayer ministry why I was deceived. I have had the joy of learning the truth and operate much more effectively and with peace in intercessory prayer. It was not anyone's fault and it was difficult to detect because, as you know, the thing about deception is that it is so deceiving. The problem was in my wrong belief and wanting the manifestations in order to prove to myself that God was really using me. I needed to have faith. The fruit of these counterfiet movements was sore muscles, lack of peace, doubt and fear, and lack of sence that the prayer time was over. Your site assures me that people have been deceived with a counterfiet in soaking prayer as well. We all need to be on alert, as scripture warns us. None of us is above being deceived that is a good reason to spend time with God quietly so he can set us free...however we spend that time with Him. I pray too that the truth be revealed to all of us in every area of our lives! God is so wonderful and merciful!! I love His Ways!
I am intrigued by all of the comments, as I am in the process of researching soaking prayer. I am a seminarian working on my doctorate, and I am struck by some of the arguments I've read. For example, to highlight the absence of the term "soaking prayer" in Scripture is a compelling argument; however, how might the individuals embracing this logic apply it to the biblical legitimacy of the Trinity, since that term is also absent from the Word?
I agree that all of our experience must come under submission to the Word of God. That Word is what records Adam's God-induced sleep when Eve was created, Abraham's God-induced sleep/trance when the covenant was established, Peter's God-induced dream in which God corrected his racism/ethnocentrism regarding which people group were "allowed" to become followers of Jesus, and John's vision as recorded in Revelation (among many other events). My point and question is this: Why does one's desire to connect with God through experience equate to demonic engagement? It seems dangerous to assert that God only did those things mentioned above until the Word was written, since that argument implies a "changeable" God...something the Word clearly opposes.
I'm just looking for an understanding of the opposition to soaking prayer that doesn't contradict what the Word records doing.
Thanks!
I personally have been to Mike Bickle's International House of Prayer a few times and willingly participated in soaking prayer there, at Brownsville and FIRE in Pensacola and at other ministries while missionary in Germany.
Then the Lord opened my eyes to the deception of soaking prayer and contemplative prayer which have ties to the occult and Hinduism.
Check out the book 'A Time of Departing' by Ray Yungen (2006).
One reader wrote, "Having just completed this book, I highly recommend it to all who are seeking to distinguish between truth and error with Biblical clarity. This is a time in our history when compromise is abounding, loose thinking is pervasive, Biblical clarity is diminishing, and strange doctrines are encroaching upon the church of Jesus Christ. This book separates truth from error. "A Time of Departing" clearly points to the gnostics of our modern day. Read it and then examine your faith also examine what we are now allowing into the church."
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Departing-Ray-Yungen/dp/0972151273/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268621693&sr=8-1
The term "Rapture" isn't in the Bible either, and yet many Christians teach and believe this doctrine.
Yes, the term 'rapture' is not in the scriptures, thus the very reason I no longer follow/believe in a rapture.
Resurrection, yes. Rapture, no.
Not wanting to criticize or put God in a box I am currently looking into a number of things that trouble me deeply.There are certain trends of a spiritual nature that give me no peace. Some friends of mine who are mature Christians are getting into mysticism, soaking prayer, stuff that had to have come from some place. They quote A.W. Tozer a great deal yet use his "mysticism" as an almost anything goes. "Spiritual fornication" is very serious...and Ezekiel 23 & 24 come to mind when I see mature and undiscipled Christian running to and fro for any "emotional" fix with the Holy Spirit. I just want to make sure it is the Holy Spirit and not a spirit. The problem is that there is such a spirit of pride involved that if you question it a response typical to this is usually what you get, "You just aren't "there" yet." or "Your not spending enough time in your prayer closet." Huh? When I was first saved about 25 years ago for some reason the scriptures I remember the Lord hitting home were II Thessalonians 2. Now I know why.
Thanks for the comment. It caused me to look up the word 'meditate' in the scriptures and found lots of verses!
This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Joshua 1:8
But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 1:2
When I remember thee upon my bed, [and] meditate on thee in the [night] watches.
Psalm 63:6
I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
Psalm 77:12
Here are 5 verses from Psalm 119:
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Princes also did sit [and] speak against me: [but] thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.
My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.
Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: [but] I will meditate in thy precepts.
Mine eyes prevent the [night] watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.
Psalm 143:5
I love the Word of God! And don't we always find comfort and encouragment when we read it?
Shouldnt we as christians, "Consider the source" ? Todd bently, emma the angel, nuff said.
Cathy, thank you for your words explaining this. Im actually doing a bible study in a chat room in a few days on this very topic and will be citing this if its ok with you
Sure, Joshua.
May the Truth be revealed, may the lies be exposed, may the deceived wakeup, may the sinner repent, may the lost get saved and may the Lord Jesus Christ be glorifed in my continued prayer...
Below are the exact phrases.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
1Cr 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Cathy
An argument over the word "soaking" not appearing in scripture is quite weak...
I hope you believe in the "Trinity", though that word does not appear in scripture either.
More of a concern is how new age practices are being embrassed by the Christian community and this is just one of them.
Some claim that they see a person's "aura" when soaking a person in prayer. Soaking means pouring out lots of prayer over a person, often with laying on of hands and/or passing the hands over a person. It is reminiscent of what is called "Therapeutic Touch" practiced by new age and alternative medicine enthusiasts.
People who believe in soaking prayer get the sense that power is passing through their bodies and actually helping to bring healing, comfort and love. And those who are soaking someone testify that they feel waves coming from the person or going toward the person being prayed for. Certainly something may be felt or experienced, however, is it the Holy Spirit?
This is much closer to magic than Christianity. Nothing remotely akin to soaking prayer is found in the Bible.
Even people who support the Toronto Blessing realize this truth, but it is justified by the statement, "God is doing a new work." These words have long been the claim of founders of cults.
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you."
Matthew 24
I have seen many spiritual trends come and go in many years of attending very different churches - Pentecostal, Vineyard, Baptist, etc. I think the term 'soaking' really isn't something to get hung up on. I think that it's easy to get worked up about terminology or "fads" of spiritual manifestations. I believe that as Christians what matters is that we are focusing on Jesus, and the glory is given to Jesus, and that we allow the Holy Spirit to help/change us, while maintaining that focus on Jesus. I strongly believe that as long as we do not get caught up in the side-issues (such as who has tingling, or who has fallen over, or WHATEVER), but that if we are continually seeking to glorify Jesus & follow His ways, He will continue to direct our paths. An easy question to ask is what is the fruit of what is going on? Sometimes fruit is not seen immediately, but over time there will be fruit if what has happened is from God. This is a touchy subject & if we are spending daily time with God in prayer/worship/bible-reading, etc then I would hope & trust that He will give us discernment to know when something is not of Him. It needs to remain all about Him. I don't sweat the details, as long as it's about HIM. God is bigger than all of these details & knows our hearts. I have known phenomenal Christians at all of these aforementioned churches who have practiced their worship in different ways, but the thing they all have in common is the acknowledgement that Jesus died for them & that we are called to love each other, which also means being called to action (love, compassion, servanthood, etc.) and not just contemplation, which too has its rightful place. They will know us by our love. Blessings, peace, love & truth to all of you.
Thanks Alisa!
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love..."
Galatians 5
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gal&c=5&v=1&t=KJV#top
I myself got caught up in 'soaking' for several weeks and would probably still be doing if it weren't for God waking my mother up in the middle of the night and telling her, "Amy is in trouble" and then He gave her the word 'soaking'. I had not told my mother anything about my new involvement in 'soaking'. There was definitely a lot of pride there! I brushed off my mom's words of warning from the Lord, actually laughing at her and telling her that it must have been a spirit of fear that woke her. I explained to her what I believed 'soaking' to be- spending time with the Lord and that I believed I was actually rapidly growing in my relationship with the God. She made me promise to at least bring it up to my pastor, which I did. I counsel with my minister once a week and looking back i see how strange it is that, I had been having these powerful encounters with God,and hadn't even mentioned it to him. On the day I went to talk to him about the soaking I was actually fearful. Now I see it was the spirits behind the 'soaking' that were afraid- afraid of being exposed. He had never heard of 'soaking' and so I described to him how it had been described to me. There was something about the word 'soaking' that bothered him. He prayed against deception and told me to talk to God about it.
This is what the Lord said, "Separate even divorce yourself from anything having to do with 'soaking'. If you want to spend time with Me and talk with Me then do so and call it that. 'soaking' is not for my children in the same way that 'yoga' is not for my children. I created the muscles and I created stretching and if you want to stretch then you stretch and you don't go to a yoga class to do it."
God also told me there are spirits of charismatic witchcraft involved- which is 'control through manipulation'. God said that the roots of 'soaking' are in hinduism and that there are false manifestations of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that occur during 'soaking'. God also said that the reason people are so drawn to 'soaking' was because of the power they experience. It has nothing to do with His presence.
If you are a 'soaker' then God says don't thank Him for your experiences, thank the devil. The power you experience during 'soaking', (the visions, the prophetic words, the tingling, etc.)are totally void of life. I don't doubt you are having them, I had them myself. But just because you have a spiritual experience doesn't mean it is God. Buddhists have spiritual experiences too. May all of God's children come out from under the influence of 'soaking'. In Christ love, Amy
Thanks so much for your comment, Amy, and praise the LORD Jesus Christ that you were will willing to repent!
Just found a great testimony on the deception of soaking prayer here & will post above as well:
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcAkjZhqSnc
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikjcy5eWIcU
Hello,
I have to weigh in on this. As a believer of many years and a person who is naturally sensitive and drawn to the supernatural, we must be very careful here. Anything that smacks of esotericism absolutely must be avoided by those who have the Holy Spirit of Jesus abiding within. He will have no other gods before Him. There is a fine line. It's much easier to lay down and empty your mind and have someone pray over you than to do the hard work of prayer, although there is NOTHING wrong with being prayed for. First, believe me, if there is an empty space, you can depend on demonic forces to try to fill it. Second, this is an eastern mystical technique that is a tried and true route to demonism and everyone in the occult knows that. It's just a new spin on an old game. The question is not aren't we receiving power, but rather where is the power coming from. We are commanded in scripture not to tangle with the occult and this is all this is. We don't need a short cut or a new technique, we just need more Jesus, less sin (oops, I said the "s" word didn't I)and more of the Word of God.
Respectfully,
Chery
Thanks Chery... completely agree with you.
Icame upon your blog looking into soaking a few moments ago. Thanks, I don't need to spend a lot of time looking any farther. I have'nt felt the sense of Gods presence for awhile, would you please pray for me. Thank You...Don
Yes Don... praying for you...
Thank you, Cathy, for this revealing post. Our church has lost some members who now attend a "soaking" church. This thing is indeed one of those "winds of doctrine" that people have fallen for. When I went to that particular church's website, I found that the folks who run it are called "trainers." This is clearly not the Holy Spirit but the flesh. The Lord told me this morning, "They are looking for a show." Jesus' ministry here on earth was balanced; the truth of the Word prevailed in everything He did and said. Once we stray from the pure, unadulterated Word of God, we are in deep, deep trouble. Revival is in the heart, not in the flesh. Many blessings to you. Continue telling the truth.
Thank you Mary Ann for the encouraging note. Throughout Scripture we are warned to let no man deceive us and to try/test the spirits.
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1
Hi Cathy,
I do so appreciate your bringing this "soaking" prayer/music into the light. I was about to order a CD but the word "soaking" kept bothering me. I started to research for I truly believed it was, indeed, the Holy Spirit stopping me from buying it. With all the horror that is going on in the so called "prayer" rooms my mind kept going to that. I THANK YOU b/c I will NOT get involved with such a practice. The Devil still comes to steal, kill and destroy as we can clearly see the abominations going on in the churches.
Cathy, may I suggest that you reconsider your view on the "rapture". The word is translated "caught up" in 1 Thes 4:17. The dictionary form of this Greek verb is harpazō.
I would have to ask that since the word "Trinity" is also not in the Bible, does that mean you would refuse to believe in a triune God as the Bible clearly teaches? Hope you don't mind my getting off the subject but to disregard the entire idea of the "catching away" because of the word rapture does not appear, I think should be prayerfully considered. Thanks again for your help and the Lord bless you Cathy! Carol
Hi Carol, thanks for the comment.
Regarding the rapture, the issue is not so much being caught up but rather the pre-tribulation rapture teaching which is not clear in scripture.
I totally believe in the second coming of Christ and look forward to that day - the blessed hope!
cheers,
Cathy
I am very concerned now as my 2.5 year old son has been listening to a "soaking" CD for 2 months now!! I had no idea what it meant...I googled the artist and didn't find anything negative written about her. My sister who lives with us set up the CD player in his room to help him sleep better. She goes to a church that is very new age in my opinion.
I caught a few words tonight and heard the lyrics "angels we invite you here..angels we invite you "in"..I believe it said at least once. That sounded the alarm in my gut and I started googling the term "soaking".
What should I do now? I can't believe my son has been listening to that for months!
Simply repent. The LORD is merciful.
I have Noticed that IHOP and Mike Bickle seem to come up a few times in this post and comments. I would like to direct your attention to this....Mike Bickle has said on several occasions (while addressing the staff Of IHOP)That He felt like a lot of the mysticism that was going on there was not sincere. He encouraged that people refrain from what he called "instant manifestation" and told people that though they were not going to limit God and say that certain things were not of God they needed to be absolutely certain that their actions were Godly and sincere.Also I lived at IHOP for a year and never heard a teaching on "soaking" or even a promotion of Soaking from the leadership. Now meditating ON SCRIPTURE, that is something they talk about. Which is very biblical!! But the majority of the Soaking that i saw taking place was more being allowed rather than endorsed..and was organized by someone other than the leadership of IHOP-KC. The prayer room is meant to be a place of intercession and meditation ON THE WORD OF GOD...and those things are 100% in the Bible.
Very good points!
Satan is good in counterfeit.
If something is fake, that means there is a real stuff that it is faking. and the real stuff is of value.
Example, you find Fake Rolex watch, but you don't find a Fake Casio cheap model watch. No one will counterfeit something of no value and worthless.
You theory that the occult also practice similar practice so everyone that practice this is occult is really off.
Example. If you find that one of your Rolex watch which you bought is a fake, does it mean that you will throw away the genuine Rolex watch too because there is a fake one around? In that case, give the genuine Rolex watch to me.
Satan has corrupted many things which makes some religious Christian to shun away from them. This is wrong. The right approach when you find that there is a corrupted counterfeit should be to find the REAL stuff rather than throw out the baby with the filthy water.
Thanks for your comment Wy.
As stated above, soaking prayer is not biblical, plain and simple.
There is nothing good about going into an altered state of consciousness or a trance-like contemplative state in which the adherent is encouraged to empty their mind.
That type of activity spiritually dangerous.
May the Truth be revealed, may the lies be exposed, may the deceived wakeup, may the sinner repent, may the lost get saved and may the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified I pray.
Cathy
Thanks for this. I was thinking of going to a christian retreat centre and noticed they practice soaking prayer so did a search instead and found your website. I pulled out of a church last year because of strange manifestations, roaring, & a leader who sees angels & gives messages from them and then prayed for us to have visitations and started a School of Seer for people to see into the supernatural. I have repented of the Toronto/Bentley/IHOP/Bethel errors but feel very confused, somewhat fearful of christians & churches and finding it very difficult to connect anywhere. I am on my own and feeling very isolated and a lot seems to be going wrong for me at present. Would you be kind enough to pray for me that I can find the right way please? Many thanks. Christine
Hi Christine,
The Lord Jesus Christ is with you every step of the way and you are not alone.
Many have pulled out of the organized apostate 'chuches' for the same reasons.
Keep reading your Bible, praying, obeying and sharing Christ at the Holy Spirit leads. He is your Teacher, no man.
blessings & love,
Cathy
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
1 John 2:27
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Jo&c=1&v=1&t=KJV#top
Its not safe,young believers can be opened up to false spirits "Replicating" the Holy Spirit.
Greetings, I'm praying into this as 'soaking' was something introduced to me by default but in a perfect seasons change of my life - there was no set rule or expectation besides 'Above all things, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your mind and all of your soul>>>and so in my stillness of first fruits I would connect with Daddy God. I found the music still's my spirit but my heart and mind where I believe God judges us is soulfully and whole heartedlly fixed on Him. It could be a day of just stillness, power prayer where I proclaim God's promises already given, perhaps a good cry which comes as though the Holy Spirit stirs a day of connection, teaching, healing or spiritual warfare. Today in my quite time Im reading from Daniel. Daniel speaks of courage, without compromise...Courage is doing what is right against all odds. In chapter one he didn't eat the kings food as he found it easier to resist temptation by already thinking through his convictions well before temptation arose. Sometimes we get into trouble because we have not decided where to draw the line. Today I choose to keep to my commitment to put God first, then when what ever comes I'll be ready. Daniel and his friends learned all they could about their new culture so they could do their work with excellence. But while they learned, they maintained steadfast allegiance to God. Culture and change need not be God's enemy. If it does not violate his commands, it can aid in accomplishing His purpose. We who follow God are free to be leaders in our culture, but we must put our allegiance to God first. xx Sam
I just heard of soaking today, and I was curious about it. I came across your article and thought I'd do a little research. Since there were several posts that used the word "meditate" to justify soaking, I decided to grab Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words and look it up. The word meditate is translated from the Hebrew word "hagah" which means, "to meditate, moan, growl, utter, speak."
It seems to me that Biblical meditation has nothing to do with be silent or still, but rather thinking on God's Word so deeply that you begin talking to yourself about it. There is no altered state of conscious nor any power that comes from it except a better understanding of God's Word.
So, in short, soaking isn't Biblical. Jesus never practiced soaking, He simply prayed privately, as the Bible says He did. Soaking is, in fact, a form of divination which is actually forbidden in the Bible.
Thanks for the comment, Lightrunner7... TOTALLY AGREE!
Soaking causes division too.
I agree with your arguments... To a point. However, I would argue that it is in fact the spiritual focus of the "soak" which makes all the difference. I'd suggest that whenever one encounters an unfamiliar spiritual practice - regardless of what it is - that one should adopt the spirit of the Thessalonians in Acts 17:11; and daily search the Scripture.
As far as the comment on the focus goes; I'll say only this:
In those instances where you're instructed to clear your mind, and are trying to manufacture an experience with the Spirit, I totally agree with you, however when I was instructed re: soaking, it was always a time of quiet before worship/after bible reading in which we focus on the Lord, and meditate upon His Word. The focus was always on asking the Lord to illumine His Word and His nature.
The key with this is - as with any form of prayer, worship, or contemplation - the focus. Christ comes first, -always.- Worship isn't about us seeking an encounter with the Spirit, but about pouring out adoration to the King. If, while worshipping, you happen to have an encounter, great, bonus points, but it's not the goal, and we should never try to manufacture it. Ditto with soaking - the aim, first and foremost, should be glorifying the Lord (And I hold fast to the principle that He is glorified by our meditations on His Word)
If, while you're meditating on the Word, you have an encounter, again, bonus points; but the idea that this may happen should never detract from our focus, which is Him, and His Word.
I believe that prayer and worship in any form should be selfless. For me, personally, if it's selfless, if it's about God, and not our desires (well-meaning though they may be) then it's acceptable.
Cheers,
Jay
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Thanks Jay for your thoughtful comment.
I believe when we are still before the Lord no matter where, He meets us.
"Be still, and know that I am God"
Psalm 46:10a
additional: After having a very thorough read of the comments, I feel I should clarify something here. You and I refer to two -very- different things as soaking. My points above are about soaking being a primary solitary thing, and not a group exercise. what I am "soaking" in is the serenity of being still before God, the peace that comes with His presence. It's Father and son time for me, one-on-one quality time. My heart is always to glorify Him further, and I believe a strong relationship with Him is a key part of achieving this.
As far as "soaking someone in prayer" goes, I totally agree with you - I can think of no better time to focus selflessly and exclusively on Christ than when being prayed for, and I, like you, would lovingly caution against clearing your mind when you're being prayed for - a clear mind, as opposed to one fixed on Jesus - can only lead to trouble, regardless of whether or not you're being prayed for. If you push Christ out of your mind, how are you to discern that which is of Him?
Regards,
Jay
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Good addendum, Jay :)
The term "rapture" may not be in the bible, but it is from the Latin word “Rapturo” for the Greek “Harpazo” which in English is “Caught Up” in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. I guess it depends then on what you mean by rapture.
It clearly does not teach it and john 20:17 should be enough, if not Go read "Jesus was not a trinitarian" by Anthony buzzard and be a critical christian berean and research it with your bible and prayer and wake up to macro error which is source of these micro mythical mystical nonsensical micro errors.
Jesus rose and before ascension said in his own words as perfect image, image like a mirror obviously not the exact being it reflects, said "...My God is your God and my Father is your Father" and Our Messiah himself admitted he does not even know time of his return, so trinity thesis god man god men to man god myth means Jesus is somehow subconscious of God not knowing conscious mind of our Father who is one God? Why was Jesus not 3 men? ;) check out the book, and i even found free copy online and" One God One Lord" or "what they never told me in church"...
The trinity isn't in the bible but the concept is just like the rapture isn't in the bible but the concept and the Greek sure indicate
In Matt. 24 the ones left will walk into the millinial kingdom with there body
In the rapture we get out heavenly bodies
The verse be still and no I'm God is written to isreal as they are grumbling getting ready for a battle and God is telling them that he I've got everything under control trust me
As far as soaking it's a form of contemplative prayer and Jesus warned us about with the vain repititions
If you look at the charasmatics the follow every new direction the wind blows but Gid warned us against that in the bible
Demons favorite place to hang out is churchs
The term rapture is in the bible (in its original language). Please do your research.
Please review this info. I used to believe in a pre-trib rapture but no longer. I do believe and look forward to the 2nd coming of Christ, the Blessed Hope. http://enjoyingthejourney.blogspot.com/search?q=rapture
Scripture many times compares His church and Himself as the bride and groom. If take a close look at the Jewish marriage ceremony, you will see how it emulates the rapture of the church. Jesus, the groom, comes unannounced and received His bride, the church and takes her to His fathers house, where he has built/prepared a social room for His bride, then keeps her there for 7 days. It is the perfect picture of the pretribulation rapture. There are many other verses that promote this idea but I will end here.
Since the bible original text is Hebrew and Greek, you won't find soaking, charismatic, dinosaur, even Jesus in it, how ever you will find reference to all those things. Eg selah; pause and contemplate, bohemoth; described in Job blah blah blah. Every Christian movement has the potential to be cultish, including traditional Church which also has very worldly concepts that reject NT concepts. You need to look carefuly at wht the bible really says and not what your current or past experiences tell you what to believe. Examine and re-examine, don't be fooled into wrong or out of right, both are deadly.
Hi there.
I´ve just finished translating this peace to swedish, since I´ve started up a group on FB about the false doctrines entering churches. And yes I now it might seem really late, but up until october 2016 and the awakening tour, we haven´t seen as much as you lot over there. Now on the other hand the filthy water is pouring in, whereas it only were sipping in before.
Anyway enough about that. I really just wanted to say thank you. anything that I can find I´m very greatful for. Since there aren´t very much if one makes the search in swedish.
and God bless you, and may you continue to keep up the good work and the good fight.
Blessings Ingemo
And may God richly bless you too, Ingemo! The battle is raging but JESUS CHRIST is on the throne and we are more than conquerors through Him.
Blessings, Cathy
to cathy palmer: The word rapture is not in the bible but, the word(s) snatching away, etc. are. It's referring to the time when Jesus Christ is coming for HIS bride aka church. Have you read the bible? Have you studied and listened to evangelists that teach this biblically sound/based event? You obviously have very little understanding of scripture. If you don't believe in the snatching away aka the rapture then I have to wonder if you believe in heaven and hell . . . I'm a true born again believer in Jesus Christ the Lord God almighty . . . went to the cross on my/everyone's behalf . . . at the end of Revelation what does it state? Do NOT add to or take away from this book . . . meaning the entire bible or your name will be taken out of the book of life if it was there to begin with! Deception is what satan is best at . . . he cannot create a thing! He is the best copycat ever! Heard a very strong analogy once . . . when Jesus was temped in the wilderness by Satan . . . satan offered him the kingdoms, etc. and it was only going to take him maybe 2 min. . . It is going to take God all of eternity to share His glory and all of creation with His children in heaven! How awesome is that?!! Praise God for HIS faithfulness! I'm praying to be "raptured" rather than experience death . . . love the idea of meeting HIM in the air as scripture declares! Maybe the people who mentored you have been deceived? Praying for all deception to fall away & people to be awakened and quickened by the precious Holy Spirit.
Cathy: If you no longer believe in the rapture chances are you will be left behind! I feel sorry for the ones left to deal with the anti-Christ and will be killed for their faith, if they have any left . . . false prophets are everywhere, wolves in sheep clothing, etc. the ones teaching, blogging, instructing, etc. are held to a higher standard & therefore, will be judged accordingly. BE CAREFUL! You will reap what you sow.
Titus 2:13 says, "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" and this is what I believe, the second coming of Christ.
I think the rapture teaching is deceptive and there are several posts on this blog which explain that in more detail.
The cry of my heart is from Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
A few verses on the coming of Christ:
1Co 1:7
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Co 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Phl 1:26
That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
1Th 2:19
For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1Th 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
1Th 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Pe 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
In closing, my prayer is that the truth be revealed, the lies be exposed, the deceived wake up, the lost saved and the Lord Jesus Christ be glorified. Amen.
Someone mentioned that satan can’t create anything that is true but we forget the he always changes and twists things. He comes in through the back door. God’s way of prayer is to speak to him in your conscious mind which is praying and asking for help in your time of need or guidience. Satan’s way to open his door is to come to you in a hypnotic state through the subconscious mind through listening, either through music, trying to hear a voice,or feelings to prove to you that there is a presence in the atmosphere. The only presence in the atmosphere is a lying Spirit. When we received Christ we received his presence inside of us there is no more need to feel anything more. He is always with us wherever we are. There is no feeling of it. Soaking is about listening and feeling. The lord described to us that we should pray like this Our father which are in heaven and etc. I would say that is talking to God directly and then ending it at amen. It is still about getting an answer back right then and waking to hear his voice like a two way conversation. That’s why amen is used it is an ending to the prayer. It’s not a listening prayer. God has already spoken to us in his word and and the Holy Spirit helps us to understand it and to guide us through our conscience. It is only through his word we will know the truth and not other forms. We pray to him and he speaks back to us through his word, the Bible. That is our only reference for truth. If we are trying to hear other wise, like a still small voice it could be anything. That why we have to judge everything by the Bible. All the other religions listen for a still small voice. God speaks to us through our spirit from the Bible, not through listening prayer. Reading his word and conscious prayer is all we need. God word is sufficiant for our daily bread and will show us his will for our lives. The fruits of the Holy Spirit is not about feeling. We do have our own emotions and feelings but the scriptures speak of not allowing our emotions to direct our life. The fruits are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, long suffering, and self control. Soaking only beings feelings and encounters that are out of Gods plans and will teach us to want more and that will also lead us to experience the kundalini spirit which is a force and energy that gives out waves of electricity making you think it’s the Holy Spirit. The more you do the more he will give you and then it becomes addictive. It even gives the jerks,shakes,weeping, Holy laughter and etc. walking with God is by faith alone and not expecting to see or feel anything. Her is a link about the Holy Spirit vs the unholy spirit. Read it for yourself. If you read it by phone turn it sideways so you get the full article. The kundalini is infiltrating the church. Pleas don’t be deceived. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/23/the-biblical-holy-spirit-vs-the-false-unholy-spirit-of-fire/amp/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NShnozCe1QI
Let us be sober and think on these things
Someone mentioned that satan can’t create anything. This is true, but we forget that he always changes and twists things. He comes in through the back door.
God’s way of prayer is to speak to him in your conscious mind. Praying and asking for help, in your time of need or guidience.
Satan’s way to open his door is to come to you in a hypnotic state through the subconscious mind. Either through listening, music, trying to hear a voice, or feelings to prove to you that there is a presence in the atmosphere. The only presence in the atmosphere is a lying Spirit.
When we received Christ we received his presence inside of us. There is no more need to feel anything more. He is always with us wherever we go.
Soaking is about listening and feeling. The lord described to us in the Bible how we should pray. Our father which are in heaven and etc. Matt 6:9-13. It is talking to God directly and then ending it at amen. It is not about getting an answer right back, and waiting to hear his voice like a two way conversation. That’s why amen is used in an ending to the prayer.
It’s not a listening prayer. God has already spoken to us in his word. The Holy Spirit helps us to understand it and to guide us through our conscience and spirit. It is only through his word we will know the truth and not other forms.
There is only one form of prayer in the Bible and that is speaking to him and he speaks back to us through his word, the Bible. That is our only reference for truth. If we are trying to hear other wise, like a still small voice it could be anything. That’s why we have to judge everything by his word. God’s word is sufficiant for our daily bread and will show us his will for our lives. The fruits of the Holy Spirit are not about feeling. We do have our own emotions and feelings but the scriptures speak of not allowing our emotions to direct our life. The fruits are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, long suffering, and self control. Soaking only brings feelings and encounters that are out of Gods plans and will teach us to want more. It will also lead us to experience the kundalini spirit. Which is a force and energy that gives out waves of electricity making you think it’s the Holy Spirit. The more you do the more he will give you. Then it becomes addictive. It even gives jerks, shakes, weeping, Holy laughter, etc. Walking with God is by faith alone and not expecting to see or feel anything. Here is a link about the Holy Spirit vs the unholy spirit. Read it for yourself. If you read it by phone, turn it sideways so you get the full article. The kundalini is infiltrating the church. Please don’t be deceived. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/06/23/the-biblical-holy-spirit-vs-the-false-unholy-spirit-of-fire/amp/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NShnozCe1QI
Let us be sober and think on these things
IHOP teaches heresy. Meditation that they teach is the same as the Jews which is not Christian. Plus they sing prayers like the Catholics and is not biblical in the New Testament. Sing psalms is just sing praises to the lord but it is not done the same way IHOP dose it. They sing one phrase and repeat it over and over that is contemplative prayer which is not much diffferent then soaking prayer and Jesus said when you pray do not repeat them like the heathens. Because it actually puts you into a trance. It is not biblical. IHOP is all based on old testement patterns. We are not in the old testement times God deals with us differently because Jesus came and gave his life for us and now we have the Holy soirirbin is and not outside of us. So therefore IHOP is concerededbto bebteaxhing heresey. Satan does things differently so he tries to get us to pray in a different way. Jesus only showed us one way to pray and that is speaking to the father being in reverence, using your conscious mind and asking requests. We cannot expect that we are getting more of God because we already have him. We just need to read his word if we want to know him more and pray in our conscious mind. These other forms of prayer are either catholic or new age ways of prayer and it is forbidden by God.
Thanks J Lynn for your comments... totally agree!
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