"Once saved always saved" is a false and dangerous teaching NOT found in the scriptures.
Listen to author Dr. Cathy Burns who was interviewed by Kelly McGinley (http://www.thebereanchronicles.com/) in Nov 2006.
Find Cathy Burns books at The Berean Chronicles or on amazon.com
Audio Part 1 of 10
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Part 2 of 10
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Part 3 of 10
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Part 4 of 10
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Part 5 of 10
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Part 6 of 10
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Part 7 of 10
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Part 8 of 10
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Part 9 of 10
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Part 10 of 10
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LINK TO ALL 10 PARTS ON YOUTUBE
Scripture:
Matthew 24
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
1 Timothy 4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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33 comments:
Wow, thanks for sharing those! Eternal Security is one of the greatest spiritual poisons in America, in my opinion, and is responsible for luring so many to their spiritual deaths. Another great teacher who refutes eternal security is Dan Corner from the website www.evangelicaloutreach.org if you are interested in checking him out.
Thanks... if folks would simply read the Scriptures and not add to them, it is very clear that a person can loose their salvation and have their name blotted out of the book of life.
And thanks for the link.
blessings,
Cathy
Talk about a mess!I haven't listened to all of this yet, but I hope the question is asked of her how she knows when she has sinned "too much". Then, can she be "re-saved"? What a horrible thing to miss the truth of eternal security in Christ. If I could ask Cathy Burns one question, it would be, "Cathy, how many "gospels" are there in the bible? I can imagine her answer. "One, of course". This is why this error comes about, not "rightly dividing" the Bible. What a mess!
If you would simply know you aren't a Jew,but a Gentile. It would just open up the bible and what God writes to you. The Jewish synagogues don't worship Jesus. The Jews join us if they believe today,we don't join them There is a difference between females and males physically;they are the weaker vessel;females. As well as Gentile and Jew; they are Gods people according to the flesh(Jews) when right with God.The verse that says there is no Jew,Gentile,male or female is spiritual,I mean you Cathy are still female even though saved right? I hope you believe you still are.Lets study what God writes to us.
IF I sincerely get born again, then I lose it, but before death sincerely get born again ...again... well then...the bible does not teach that someone can get born again twice! if we can lose our salvation because of lack of works? lack of being good? then salvation is earned...thats wrong... when someone is sincerely bornagain, right at that moment they are saved and going to Heaven...period! when we see others who say they are bornagain, but thier lifestyle is WAAAAY worldly...then we are to think that just maybe they didnt actually get sincerely saved in the first place...
So beach, it's a pretty easy concept: you become born again but reject the Lord Jesus Christ, you loose your salvation. But later on, you repent of your sin and turn back to Jesus, you go to heaven when you die.
That's the way I see it in Scripture.
blessings,
Cathy
Cathy,
It seems you are not understanding that it is not YOU that does anything to earn or keep your salvation. I'm not sure you understand the concept of what Jesus does to us when we are saved. That's not something we can undo, even if we "reject Jesus". John the Baptist even lost faith in Christ after he (John)was imprisoned. He asked, "are you the One or do we look for another?"
Are you saying he is not in heaven? Implying that if you "reject Jesus" again says to me that YOU are the one that is keeping your soul (which is impossible), not Christ. No doubt there have been many Christians who have "rejected Christ" at the point of a gun to save their skin. Are they now lost?
Read Colossians 2:11-15 and study the "circumcision made without hands". Do you know what that is talking about? Ask any man if he can undo or "lose" his circumcision.
I hope this helps.
The implication to what you are saying is that we have no free will. That it's already decided and nothing a person does, thinks or say will change his salvation if he is the elect. Is this what I am hearing from you?
If we have chosen to turn away/reject from Christ, we have no hope.
John the Baptist asked a question; he did not reject the Lord.
I have talked to drunks that stumbled out of a bar who said they were saved because they prayed a prayer in Sunday school as a child. You say they are going to heaven. I say not unless they repent.
No free will? Where did that come from? I am NOT a calvinist!
But you are right. Nothing a person "does, thinks or say will change his salvation". That's right. And you missed it on John. He lost FAITH! He wasn't just asking a question.
What do drunks stumbling out of a bar who prayed as a kid have to do with anything? I'm talking about someone who is SAVED! Now, you might think a drunk who says that is not a Christian but I can't say that. Can Christians get drunk? Can Christians murder? Can Christians sin? Can Christians commit fornication? Can Christians take drugs? YES! Ask King David about sex sin and murder. Ask Paul about doing those things he knew not to do (Romans 7).
So Caty, you must some kind of "checklist" for salvation. Get too many check marks and....zap...you're out! And I'm sure you've never gotten any check marks. How many do you need? How far is too far? According to who? YOU?
Oh good to hear that you are not a Calvinist, David.
What about this verse in Revelation 3:5 which implies that our name can be blotted out of the book of life?
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
It won't be blotted out if we overcome. How do we overcome?
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5
Yes, we are saved though faith which is the gift of God.
Ephesians 2 says
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
David, I simply want the truth.
May we both come to know the Truth I pray in Jesus name.
(The one thing I don't like about this software is that I can't see your response unless I scroll down the page...bummer!)
Cathy, You quote Rev. 3:5. What does it say? He that overcometh...will not be blotted out. That is a promise! Are you "in Christ"? Are you "saved"? Then the bible says that you have ALREADY overcome! I John 4:4 and 5:4 tell us this! What an amazing God! I John 4:4 tells us we overcome...why? Because greater is HE that is in US, than he that is in the world. Because of Christ we are overcomers, not because of ourselves! Amen! You gotta get this, Cathy. It's ALL because of Jesus Christ.
In Matthew 13 Jesus explains the parable of the sower:
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Here we have 4 groups of people. What do you think? Were any of the first 3 saved?
I think groups 2 & 3 were saved but lost their salvation.
Sorry for the delay but just got home.
OK. Well, first you've never answered any of my points. You just keep asking questions. And to be honest, I don't have time to go round and round with someone who doesn't appear to be interested in anything except asking questions.
The parables of Matthew have mutiple meanings, but to answer your question, let me ask you a question. Who is Jesus talking to? Take your time, I'll wait......OK, He was speaking to Jews....in the Old Testament. You do realize that before the crucifixion everything was in the OT even though the books are in the NT. Right? Did OT saints get born again like we do? Where did they go when they died? How did the people here in this story take care of their sin? You tell me.
The parables have spiritual application and also kingdom application. Do you know the difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of Heaven? Explain to me, then. If you can learn the difference, you are on your way to understanding more of the scripture.
And to say again: A truly "saved" person cannot ever, ever, ever lose his salvation. Have you found the man who "lost" his circumcision?
When you get messed up on doctrine, you get messed up in Matthew, Acts and Hebrews. Why? Because you don't know how to "rightly divide" (II Tim 2:15)
It's probably not your fault, but "someone" has taught you this. I hope you've not paid them any money!
Take care.
Cathy,
Where does sin begin?...In the heart. Jesus taught this principle in the sermon on the mount in Matt.5:27,28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Jeremiah 17:9 says: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
If our salvation depended upon our works we would all go to HELL! If we simply allow our thoughts to stray away from God we are guilty of sin. If this were the case, the born-again believer would never be of any use to the ministry, because we would constantly be on our knees repenting if our short comings could cost us our salvation.
The parable of The Prodigal Son confirms the eternal security of the believer. We may stray away in our walk with Him, but we will come back to Him after our time of chastening has come upon us. Heb.12:5-7
Somebody please help me to understand. I have been wrestling with and stressing over this issue for too long. I need peace about it. If there is no eternal security then WHAT (exactly) does one do that causes them to lose it? The answer to this question may answer my next question: What must I do to make sure I don't lose my security?
Your salvation is secure as long as you don't turn your back on the LORD Jesus Christ. Don't worry but trust the Lord.
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Jude 1:24,25
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jud&c=1&t=KJV&q=jude
So...really!?! That's it? I can do that! So no one else has "direct (concrete) assurance" either? Is that where FAITH comes in? Is that what it MEANS "to have faith"? (sorry and thanks for everyones patience ...I'm just a newcomer to all of this and just trying to get to the bottom of the basics!)
Well bless your heart... you know what is causing a lot of the trouble and confusion? The modern Bible versions.
Stick to the King James (and not the New King James) and the Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth. I believe that those who love the truth will not be deceived.
"For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
Hebrews 4:12
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Hbr&c=4&v=1&t=KJV#top
From all of my research, I keep hearing/reading (from multiple sources) that the (1611) King James Version is the most trustworthy of them all, so that is the one I read everyday.
About 18 months-1yr. ago, I had discovered LIE after LIE after LIE (through researching, one thing led to another and another and another) about our world and everything in it and about it and got so sick & tired of it (and fearful!) that I said, "There has GOT to be ONE grain of TRUTH!!! SOMEWHERE!! Just *ONE* is ALL I'm asking/looking/searching for ...and low and behold, I wound up being "born again"!
Thank you all for your replies! God Bless!!!
What a WONDERFUL testimony!!!!
cathy i would like to ask you this. according to revalations 21:8 murders idolators etc. will goto hell okay so when moses committed murder did he lose his salvation? (exodus 2:11-15) what i did see is that moses appeared with the lord not hell and hes 1 of the hereos of faith according to hebrews.
cathy burns uses the prodical how he became dead and alive again proven that it can be lost well in the same parable why did they kill the fattened calf if you can be saved 1,2,3,4,5,99 times etc.
Hi Patrick,
Maybe Moses committed murder before he got saved.
I know I committed murder/had an abortion before I got saved.
I repented and I believe Moses did too.
Hi Patrick,
Maybe Moses committed murder before he got saved.
I know I committed murder/had an abortion before I got saved.
I repented and I believe Moses did too.
hi cathy let me give you scriptures that proves that those that are truly saved wont turn there backs on god. john 6:39 john 10:27-28.
hi cathy im gonna give you psalms 37:22,For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.psalms 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.psalms 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.with that being said now we can goto john 10:27-28 notice when jesus said no man can snatch them out of my hand did you know that jesus spoke of not only his hand but the father's hand im not taking away free will but those that truly wanna be kept by god are kept by god.
oops i forgot to tell you that im not a calvinist i grew a baptist,now im non denomination,anyway some people look into john 10:28 saying that man can pluck himself out i disagree with dan corner and everybody else's comment on that 1.mabye we should stop listening to other peoples interprations on it and see what the bible says since its 100% truth.here's what isaiah said,But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me Isaiah 49:14.Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee Isaiah 49:15.Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me Isaiah 49:16.
You see Ms Cathy judas was never saved in the first place thats why he's in hell and not heaven because he was a devil from the beginning.
Ms Cathy you quote judas being saved but i dont see no scripture in the bible that show judas being saved.
These programs are of Cathy Burns. I am not her. So I cannot answer your question.
well if i could debate her i dont think she would be willing.
Hey, dropped by your site. Think it is informative. I think there is so many wolves out there it isnt funny. Would like to say, think the problem is that the fake believers are often the wealthiest are politically correct. The Illumanati is trying to rule southern states now. Bankers, 501c3 groups are involved in the mind control efforts to control individuals and rub corporations.
Thanks for the comment!
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